Anecdotal penetration observation

[voltradhunter]

Two of us were broadhead tuning today.

Shooter 1: Approximately 55# D-shaped longbow, drawn around 28, 29.5" 2016 aluminums w/125 grain Magnus two-blades.

Shooter 2: 45# Toelke Whip drawn around 28", 29.5" douglas fir with 125 grain snuffers and wensel woodsmans.

Both seemed well tuned. 2016s in the high 400 grain range. Fir arrows in the low 500 grain range. The 3-blade broadheads on doug fir shafts shot out of the 45# Whip consistently penetrated farther than the 2 blades on the easton aluminum 2016s.

Again, anecdotal. A bit surprising considering the difference in poundage, and the 2-blade vs. 3 blade setups. I'm liking the 3-blades on a heavy wooden shaft.

Surprising?

[bentpole]

  Gotta love them wood arrows!        

[JimB]

Not surprising to me.The 1st group are about 8.6 GPP and the second group are almost 12 GPP.Poundage is one thing.How you harness that energy is another.

[Slasher]

Originally posted by JimB:
Not surprising to me.The 1st group are about 8.6 GPP and the second group are almost 12 GPP.Poundage is one thing.How you harness that energy is another.

Thats a huge factor... Also... I have 2 whips... Whenever other shooters draw them they think they are heavier... One person said it seemed they are initially heavier... thus raising the forcedraw curve- that would explain part of why they hit like a ton of bricks....

My thinking, the D-bow is probably not cut to center and the whip is cut past I believe... thus, more energy is transferred to the arrow...

[TxAg]

Whips are cut to center. And they will sling an arrow with force!

[Bjorn]

What slasher said plus D shaped longbows are not designed to be as efficient as modern R/D longbows. The 45# may have as much or more omph than the 55#.

[Kituwa]

If you are talking about shooting in a target it may just be the aluminum shafts have more drag in the foam than the wooden shafts,,do the woodies pull out a lot easier?

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by voltradhunter:
....Approximately 55# D-shaped longbow, drawn around 28, 29.5" 2016 aluminums w/125 grain Magnus two-blades.

....

WHAT "D" shaped longbow?  a hill style or a mild r/d?  HUGE difference!

[Kris]

What are you comparing here?  The efficiency of different bows?  The penetration differences between two different broadheads?  The penetration difference between two different shaft materials, diameters?  The penetration difference between different weight arrows?

You get my point.  I’m not being a smarty pants.  I know you said it was anecdotal.  What medium are you shooting in to?  That doesn't matter so much either, because that is the one thing that is consistent for both arrows.
 
There are too many variables here to conclude much of anything other than one “lighter” bow setup is out penetrating a "heavier" bow setup, and appears more efficient for any number of reasons.
 
It is a good find though and encouraging!

Did you two shooters try switching bows to see if you got the same results?  You might be surprised.  Did you try shooting each arrow, in each other’s bow (assuming each might have the same excellent arrow flight)?
   
I do this sort of testing all the time.  It might be interesting to isolate which factor(s) is contributing to the increased penetration.

My guess (as mentioned above) would be the heavier shaft is harnessing more of the energy supplied by the Tolke and retaining it in momentum down range.  The R/D design has a more plump force/draw curve then the D-shape LB, hence is more efficient per pound draw weight, especially shooting a heavier shaft than the D-bow.
 
One experiment might be to put the same 2 blade Magnus on the Doug Fir shaft and shoot it through the Toelke (all other things being equal) and see if it out-penetrates the Snuffer with the same shaft.  Now you have isolated/compared the difference between just the broadheads.

There are so many small details you have to pay attention to, even doing this.  Are they both exactly the same sharpness?  Did they each hit the target in virgin foam?  Did you have exactly the same draw length?   Did you have the same arrow flight…etc. etc.

Again, not being even the least bit confrontational about this whatsoever, my tone is of mutual interest.   It’s more about being objective, asking questions and breaking it down, so we can understand the parts, and then utilize that information when making choices for our setups.  

It’s all good and a lot of fun.
Thank you for your post!

Sincerely,

Kris

[Shakes.602]

Lets Hear it for the  WOOD ARROWS!!    WOOOHOOO!!!  

[David Dumke]

Where can I pick up this magazine. I've bought one before but can't seem to find it, wally world?

[dnovo]

The 3 blade head cuts a hole that does not have the same friction on the arrow shaft as the 2 blade. Is this a foam type target? I bet of you reversed the heads you will have different results.

[Kris]

Well the ironic thing is, is that the Doug Fir shafts are likely a greater diameter (22/64" or 23/64") than the 2016 aluminum (20/64").  Also the aluminum shafts tend to have a lower friction coefficient than the wood shafts.  In my experience the finish on wood shafts tend to heat up upon entering foam and "grip it".  Woodies can be really hard to pull from old foam Delta targets for this reason.

[Shakes.602]

My Experience, put some Johnsons Paste Wax on the Business end of that Arrow, and it makes them MUCH easier to Pull!!