Buyer beware-Seat O the Pants Harness

[robtattoo]

Originally posted by Flingblade:
Is the reason they expire because of the plastic buckles?  I don't remember any expiration on mine and it has no plastic on it.

It's because of general material degradation. Dust, dirt, sand etc... gets into the fibers of the harness & into the stitching & begins to abrade them, possibly harming their integrity & weakening the straps.
UV light can & will begin to break down the strength of any nylon, polypropylene or polyethylene fibers, including the buckles.

I'm 99.999% sure that a harnes that is 20 years old would be safe to use, if it hasn't taken a fall, but the manufacturers need to account for a very large safety margin. Imagine the furore if, say, an HSS harness failed. It would probably bankrupt the business overnight.
Bear in mind these harnesses are designed to save your life. Not minimise risk, not make you feel safe, but actually stop a 300lb person from falling & dying. That's a hell of a lot to ask from a few nylon straps & buckles.

Yes the good harnesses are expensive, but do you really, honestly want to trust your life t the lowest bidder? I sure as shoot don't.

[Javi]

Originally posted by robtattoo:
 

Originally posted by Flingblade:
Is the reason they expire because of the plastic buckles?  I don't remember any expiration on mine and it has no plastic on it.

It's because of general material degradation. Dust, dirt, sand etc... gets into the fibers of the harness & into the stitching & begins to abrade them, possibly harming their integrity & weakening the straps.
UV light can & will begin to break down the strength of any nylon, polypropylene or polyethylene fibers, including the buckles.

I'm 99.999% sure that a harnes that is 20 years old would be safe to use, if it hasn't taken a fall, but the manufacturers need to account for a very large safety margin. Imagine the furore if, say, an HSS harness failed. It would probably bankrupt the business overnight.
Bear in mind these harnesses are designed to save your life. Not minimise risk, not make you feel safe, but actually stop a 300lb person from falling & dying. That's a hell of a lot to ask from a few nylon straps & buckles.

Yes the good harnesses are expensive, but do you really, honestly want to trust your life t the lowest bidder? I sure as shoot don't. [/b]

Child safety seats also expire..

[Molson]

I'd wonder why seatbelts don't wear out.  They stop a 300lb person travelling a heck of a lot faster than any treestand fall and yet they don't fail.  They are used repeatedly day after day. They are exposed to sunlight and extreme temps year after year.  How many times a year do you actually click in to your safety harness... thirty times? maybe?  So in five years time you have clicked in and out of your harness at most  150 times?  If the least bit of quality material was used in it's construction it should not even be close to broke in at 150 uses, and sure shouldn't be anywhere near wore out.

Having an expiration because you're afraid of liability is one thing.  Actually building a product that expires is something totally different.

[Burnsie]

Good point Molson, we aren't tearing the seat belts out of our vehicles every five years??  It is what it is, but the five year expiration thing seems to be major overkill.

[NoCams]

I lean a little toward Molson's view on this, but at the same time want to be as safe as I can. God knows in my early years in the trees I was not and he spared me even though I was Stupid with a capital "S" !!!

In my humble opinion the reason for the shelf life statement in the lit that comes with a harness is a CYA for the companies and laywers of those companies. We need to use common sense and inspect our harness each year and as long as the stitching and material are in good shape and not been worn while sunbathing on a beach then you are good to go another year. The #1 reason that shelf life statement is in there in my humble opinion once again, is the almighty $$$$'s these companies seperate from us to them !!!

Uncle Robbie....... you say you do not want to trust your life to the lowest bidder..... NASA does on every contract every day, haha !!! I think that was a quote by the great Gene Crantz ???  

[NoCams]

One more thing while I am on my high horse this morning..... The worst harness there is IMHO again, is the older ones that would stop a large truck going 60MPH but were never worn cause they were too D**** heavy and left in the large truck !!! That is the reason I never wore one years ago till we found something sensible like the Summit SOP's we wear now.

I noticed this year there are lots of newer ones available that are much better and lighter than previous years. The #1 marketing blurb for them is how, " lightweight ", they are. Find a good one that fits your budget and one that you WILL wear and stay safe my friends !  

[Casper]

The reason that safety harness have a expiration date  is the same reason the climbing harness have 5 year expiration, I has nothing to do with the harness wearing out  is due the safety aspect of the stitching.

just my two cent worth Casper

[Al Dente]

I use a professional body harness/fall arrest system.  Bieng an electrician, I need one at work, so if it is good enough to save my life there, it is good enough when I'm in a tree.  You can Google them up and see the difference.  Yes, they are expensive, some over $300, but what is your life worth?  The one for work was provided to me by the employer, but my hunting one, I purchased just for hunting.  I need to have 100% faith in my PPE (personal protective equipment), my life and family depend on it.

[JAG]

Before you pruchase or use a Full Body Harness or Treestand go to the Treestand Manfactures Assn. website and check out their information.
 www.tmastands.com
They have a list of approved FBHs and Treestands that they test.  Their testing is very rigirous and they take their testing to the limit.
All products that have the TMA logo on it are the best and safest on the market.
Their website will answer alot of the questions that have been brought up on this thread.  Check it out, and you will be suprised at the info they have.
Hunt safe.
JAG/Johnny

[MikeW]

use a professional body harness/fall arrest system. Bieng an electrician, I need one at work, so if it is good enough to save my life there, it is good enough when I'm in a tree.

I was going to mention the same thing(am a lineman)most of the ones I see that come with tree stands are a joke. Even if the thing holds up and stops your fall what most people don't realize is when you free fall and hit the end of 6' lanyard if it isn't designed to give or stretch that alone can kill you or break your back.

[NoCams]

We attach our tether high on the tree so that when we sit it has no slack in it. If I do fall I want the tether as high as possible so I do not free fall far. This also helps to insure you can get back on the stand after a fall. Our SOP's have three tear away loops sewn in to help dampen the free fall part. I do realize the professional harnesses used by tradesman are in a different league of their own and far superior to a treestand harness.

[JAG]

www.tmastands.com
Says it all.

[Al Dente]

I don't want to turn this into a "the sky is falling" thread, but after taking safety training for nearly 2 decades, and knowing people who have fallen and gotten seriously hurt, why would anyone who questions the integrity of a safety harness not want to replace it?  This is your life here, and the impact that it can cause you and your family is immeasurable.  Broken limbs, broken back, paralysis, head trauma, and death are all viable options.  Not to mention the loss of earning potential for your family as well.  Seems like a no-brainer to me.

[kennym]

A plastic buckle on somethin that sposed to keep me in the air?

I'm just sayin.....

[pitt98]

Five point racing harnesses used in all forms of race cars have expiries too (Five years is the max expiry you'll see from any company in that field).  It has more to do with degradation of stitching material, etc., then anything.  Even if the race harness just sat in it's original packaging for the five years, it's considered expired.
I think the company's offer sounds fair, but that's just me.  Regardless, buy a new harness from somewhere, it's not worth the risk.

[longbow fanatic 1]

Here is the website for Seat-O-the Pants. If their harnesses expire in 5 years, I couldn't find it on their web page. You would think that the manufacturer would post something pertaining to the expiration of their harnesses, if in fact they do expire in 5 years. That is kind of important information...don't you think?

Great advice to check out TMA. I checked that site out yesterday too.

Longbowben recently posted this link on his safety harness post, so I thought I would re-post the link. I am going to buy a Rescue One CDS. These harnesses can be used and re-used. Thanks for the tip on this harness Longbowben!

This is worth watching.

 http://www.summitstands.com/hunting-ground-blinds

[longbow fanatic 1]

Here is the Rescue One CDS link.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K33QyuCu1w&feature=player_embedded

[HB3]

I am amazed, they have a harness to save your life and it is not working right and they don't want it back so they can replace it. Can you imagine what a law suit would cost them. I have one and will check it. It's a piece of equipment we trust our life with it better not fail I don't care how old it is. Can you imagine them saying your seat belt in your car does not work and you know how many times it get's used. This is serious, you talked to the wrong person, they should be freaking out.

[CoilSpring]

The reason the plastic buckle slips loose is not the buckle- it's the strap texture/weave wearing out (becoming slick/smoother)so as not to give enough friction to hold. (hence the 5-year life recommendation).  I have the original SOP harness w/plastic buckles (12+ years old). Mine still works fine, so I use it -if it didn't I wouldn't use it.

I have seen another (SOP-licensed?? -identical)version with a slicker weave/belt (it came with my brother's Summit treestand) that was DANGEROUS, because it was brand new and wouldn't hold.  I packed up the stand/harness unused and got a refund - simply not worth it.  

SOP doesn't use plastic buckles anymore because they aren't as strong as what OSHA/TMA would recommend (5000#) (ie. legal reasons - the same reason they won't admit there is a "problem" with their original harness, because if they do admit, they are more liable). However, the original SOP was one of the better designed full-body harnesses at that time.

Harnesses aren't designed to keep you from getting hurt (you're going to be hurt in a serious fall), they are designed to keep you from getting killed, most are anyway. The SOP really needs a chest strap to keep the shoulder straps on your shoulders in a forward fall - with that improvement (I made one for mine) they would be much more likely to keep you alive in a forward fall.  Without it, the straps come off your shoulders as you fall head first to the ground, while your harness is peeled off you like a banana -you're dead.

83% of those falling 11 feet or more, die. A single medical deductible/copay will cost more than a harness.  Our loved ones would gladly pay the price of a harness to have us back alive - buy a well designed one and hunt safe.

[GRINCH]

Thats the most sound advice I've heard.