gr/lb bow weight OR total arrow wt???

[Matt Green]

Just did a search and read some on 'set-ups'. Discussion is always heavy (pun intended) on two items: 1) total weight of arrow and 2) weight of arrow RELATIVE to pulled bow weight (grains per lb).
Which do you pay more attention to??  
My thoughts: gr/lb deals directlhy with the arrow wt that is safe for the bow but less so with what is appropriate for hunting (no one woudl shoot a 100gr arrow out of a 10lb bow and claim its "OK" b/c it meats a 10gr/lb criteria)
That said, its seems ampong the MOST important (and arguably overshadowed by weight issues) points is WHAT PERMITS PERFECT - DEAD NUTS ON - ARROW FLIGHT. Hypothetical example: A 400 gr arrow dropped from 6ft high PERFECTLY vertical has a greater chance to penetrate its target than a 600gr arrow dropped from same height and impacting the target at even a slight angle. Lots of discussion over heavy vs. light arrow when a well-tuned light arrow TRUMPS a an arrow that was forced into being heavy (for heavyness sake) but tuning was sacrificed. potential can of worms ??  interested in your input.

[Matt Green]

Quick follow....
Assume you are shooting a 45lb bow (pulling 45) and in tuning you find a 450grain arrow results in PERFECT flight. Do you
A) Find a way to add weight b/c its too light or
B) Head to the woods

Assume the game is 150lb or less whitetails, GOOD shot placement, adequately quiet bow, etc. Do you insist on MORE weight???

[Night Wing]

Originally posted by Matt Green:


Quick follow....
Assume you are shooting a 45lb bow (pulling 45) and in tuning you find a 450grain arrow results in PERFECT flight. Do you
A) Find a way to add weight b/c its too light or
B) Head to the woods

Assume the game is 150lb or less whitetails, GOOD shot placement, adequately quiet bow, etc. Do you insist on MORE weight???

With your example above, I'd head to the woods.

[rastaman]

i shoot 48lbs.  My arrow weighs about 450 grains.  i kill whitetails and pigs with this setup.  i do use a scary sharp broadhead though which is also an important part of the equation. i also limit my shots to 20 yards and under. i've shot heavier before, much heavier.  i didn't like the trajectory, and the deer don't seem to notice the difference now that i've gone back to a little more than 9gr/lb.  Dead is dead but whatever works best for you and gives you the most confidence is what you should use.  Just make sure it's tuned regardless and use a very sharp broadhead.  Good luck!  

Originally posted by Night Wing:
   

Originally posted by Matt Green:


Quick follow....
Assume you are shooting a 45lb bow (pulling 45) and in tuning you find a 450grain arrow results in PERFECT flight. Do you
A) Find a way to add weight b/c its too light or
B) Head to the woods

Assume the game is 150lb or less whitetails, GOOD shot placement, adequately quiet bow, etc. Do you insist on MORE weight???

With your example above, I'd head to the woods. [/b]

X2 - At any hunting weight, 45# and up, a 10gpp arrow will work great for hunting if it is tuned properly to the bow. Oh yeah, you need to heed what rastaman said about sharp broadheads too.

Bisch

[wtpops]

head for the woods.

1. well tuned arrow
2. GPP
3. total weight

I always try for a well tuned arrow at 10 gpp, i shoot about 58# i like a 600 grain arrow. If for some reason i want a heaver or lighter arrow and cant get it with the same shaft i go to a different shaft, i will not sacrafice tune to get the weight

[oldbohntr]

Perfect flight with broadheads should trump all else, providing it is enough momentum for what you are intending to shoot. But, in your hypothetical situation, I'd pack up head to the woods if the season opened tomorrow morning. But, I'm never convinced the stars will all align properly and I will put the arrow exactly where it is supposed to be IN EVERY HUNTING SITUATION! Maybe deer are not heavy, large-boned creatures, but they have escaped far too many marginal shots, "pretty sharp" broadheads, etc.

Your situation implies it is a new setup and that you(or whoever)are not convinced which direction to take(maybe a newer archer, new bow, or whatever).  In such a case, and if there were time to work on a heavier arrow with more weight forward, I'd be looking into it.  

Even before I read Ashby's reports, I never felt an arrow less than 500 grains delivered like I wanted. He's taught me a lot since, and I believe it.  20-30 years ago, I shot 550-700 grains out of 60-75#. This week, I'm hunting elk with 670 grains out of 56#, and about 18% FOC. There are lighter arrows that will fly out of this bow, but I like how these work.  

45# is certainly adequate weight for deer.  My feeling is there is a 500 grain+ arrow combination that will work for it.

[Matt Green]

Thanks for input. i agree with perfect flight trumping everything (provided someone is not trying to hunt with a 15lb bow). As some other posts have stated - the 'ideal' with some bows varies greatly. Some bows prefer a heavier arrow while others get sluggish when arrow wt goes up. I've seen so many discussions/arguments about arrow wt when the setups that were being discussed were entirley adequte IF TUNED WELL.  Now, if anyone else reads this, here's the follow up question: WHAT TUNES MORE EASILY? A heavy or light arrow?

[JimB]

A well tuned arrow is all important.An untuned arrow squanders a lot of the bows energy.

Having said that,I'm not sure why there is ever a discussion about a well tuned light setup vs a poorly tuned heavy one.

It is no harder to tune a heavy arrow to a bow than it is a light one.Anyone who would shoot an untuned heavy arrow at game would do the same if he chose to use a lighter setup.

Regarding what tunes more easily,I'm not sure I've noticed any difference.It took me awhile to figure how to tune my first set of carbons but now I understand which spine group to choose and cut all my shafts to 30".I tune by point weight and keep a great variety of field point weights.I can usually get it worked out,pretty close in a few minutes by bare shaft planing and changing point weights.

When I think I'm there,I continue to shoot that weight over several sessions and double check by adding 1,2 or 3,5 gr weight washers till I'm positive I'm as close as I can get.

I then make up a broadhead of that weight,using a combination of glue on head,adapter and insert that matches my best field point weight.Then I shoot the broadheads,starting at 15 and gradually moving back to 30 yds.Usually all is still good but if I need to,I can tweak my broadhead weight to get there.

It has been a few years since I've played with the lighter arrows but the heavy weights are no problem to tune.

It is amazing how efficient our equipment is when well tuned,even with the lighter equipment.

[Rob DiStefano]

preamble - choose and use an appropriate holding weight stick bow that's apropos for the critters yer hunting.

now with that correct holding weight stick bow, here's my minimum criteria for anyone's hunting stick bow arrow ...

9gpp, consistent accuracy at sane hunting distances, great flight, uber sharp coc broadhead.    

[Red Beastmaster]

I had been using a 485gr arrow with my 45# bow with decent  flight. I experimented a bit and found by dropping 35gr from the point my arrows flew perfectly. I'm now using the lighter better flying set up at 450gr.

[wtpops]

Originally posted by Matt Green:
   WHAT TUNES MORE EASILY? A heavy or light arrow?

Just in my experence 9.5 and higher tunes easier out of my bows. That might be because that is what i have always tried for and have the most experence with. I know a lot of guys that tune lighter arrows very well. Plus i am very limited in arrow choise because of my draw lenght so i might not be one to answer this question.

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

Aside from avoiding bow damage, grains per pound means absolutely nothing to me. If a 450-grain arrow out of a 45# bow is sufficient for a given species, a 450-grain arrow out of a 60# bow should be even more sufficient, assuming both bows are safe to shoot that weight arrow. It's not like an arrow loses penetration ability by going faster.

[Shawn Leonard]

Jason has it, I would not hunt with over half the arrow flight I see guys shooting. I would rather have a dead tuned 380 grain arrow than a 650 that wobbles back and forth or up and down on its way to the animal. I am shooting right around 460 grain arrow and it more than enough for what I hunt and it makes a perfect hole in paper at 18-20ft. I would gladly shoot it out of a 60# bow as long as it was tuned and did not hurt the bow. By the way my 460 grain arrow from a 52# set of Borders at my 28.5" draw is smokin fast and quiet as a whisper! Shawn

[Rob DiStefano]

gpp is a very meaningful indicator.  it's a marker of sorts that allows one to test out, scale up or down the arrow mass weight, decide what's the best compromise for bow, the shooter, the critter(s) hunted and the hunt venue shoot distances.  no more or less.  choose wisely, 'cause there surely are some stupid choices that could be made.

[Shawn Leonard]

My criteria is if it blows thru a deer that is adequate and I have blown thru deer with 8gpp. out of 42# bows with my 28.5" draw. The bows effieciency and perfect arrow flight are whats important unless you get to the bigger stuff like Elk and than moose. Shawn

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

Shawn,

It doesn't take as much as some people think to shoot completely through a moose.  

None of the animals in my freezer ever stopped to check my grain per inch, grains per pound, front of center, cholesterol, whatever. And that includes the Wisconsin doe I killed on Saturday.  

[slowbowjoe]

I had been using a 485gr arrow with my 45# bow with decent flight. I experimented a bit and found by dropping 35gr from the point my arrows flew perfectly. I'm now using the lighter better flying set up at 450gr.

Shooting right about the same set-up, but arrow weight is 505grn, with 200grn points. Not getting optimal flight with 500 or 530 spine carbons... what arrow is working for you?

[monterey]

I start from the point of deciding in advance what I would like the finished arrow to weigh and then choose components that I think will best get to that weight.

At this time I've arrived at a 675 grain set up with a 19.35% foc.  They fly equally well from my 42# 50# LBs.  I never thought at all about gpp, but now that I calculate it, it comes up to 16gpp and 13.5gpp respectively.

Many years ago I had a 450 grain set up tipped with a sharp bear razor head shot from a 45# bow stop dead on the shoulder blade of a doe at about 15 yards.  Amost any arrow with good flight and a sharp two blade coc broadhead will shoot clean through a whitetail doe if placed between the ribs.  But, I know they don't always go between the ribs!  

[JamesKerr]

With a 45 pound bow and above a minimum of 9gpp with a razor sharp bh and a perfect flying arrow.