Bent Carbons how that happen?

[South MS Bowhunter]

Hey guys been setting up some arrows for the season and i'm finding that several of my shafts were not spinning true so upon closer inspection discovered they were bent!  These shafts have been used over the last 2 season some with more wear then the others and I use hot melt to install my inserts.  Don't want to name the brand and give a wrong representation when it may be something i'm doing.  I use a flame and heat up the insert and apply the hot melt and then insert.  Most times I do not cool down with water just allow it to cool on it own could this be a problem over time? I say with time due to i've never had this problem till now and some of these shafts have had inserts removed and reinstalled several times.  I tried an experiment to see if i could get the shaft to bend back into shape by heating up and insert and applying pressure to true up the shaft and was able to get 2 of the most bent ones to realign to some degree.  I didn't take any pic's and then later on I broke one after shooting into a root and trying to remove it with a chisel        
Anybody ever experience this?

[Trad-Man]

If they are bent up near the business end I think you already know why...heat.

I no longer use hot melt glue or epoxy...I use JB Weld which means there is no going back.  It's a one shot deal.

I'm no expert but I would think that the shafts have been compromised to some extent.  Whether they are a hazard to shoot or not I do not know.

[South MS Bowhunter]

Brian,

I think you're right and i just needed to have it bounced back at me, but like i said it looks to have taken some time of doing it over and over before it happened.  The arrow that I broke was due to the chisel getting to close   :rolleyes:   Not sure the effect of repetitive heat on the shaft but i'm sure it has some.

Any other methods out there to install inserts that is reversible (I like to tinker) and doesn't involve heat?

[ishiwannabe]

With carbons, and continual tuning, I would think an investment into the weight adjustable inserts would be the way to go. I forget their name but I believe PDP...I know 3R carries them.
I have ruined too many carbons trying to remove inserts...

[Trad-Man]

Not that I know of...

If you like to tinker you might try going to wood...the tinkering there is endless!

[gonefishing600]

I use hot melt myself but I don’t heat up the insert. I put the hot melt in the flame and when the glue liquefies, I take the insert and scrape off a generous amount on to the insert, and while the glue is still hot insert the insert in the end of the shaft, or if it cools off a bit run it through the flame a few times. I keep my fingers all over the end of that shaft to monitor the heat, and it never gets to hot where I can’t hold it.

If you have brass inserts and are heating up the inserts hot enough to melt the glue, I would say there’s your problem. Please follow the link at the bottom of this post.

If used properly, this glue is the greatest thing since apple pie. Imagine being able to install an insert and being ready to shoot in less than 5 min. and will not come out, I guarantee. And then being able to remove that insert with very little heat. I can take an insert put in a small field tip, put the tip in the flame and get it a little hot, take it out of the flame and wait for the heat to transfer down to the insert and melt the glue, and in 10 to 15 second that insert pulls out as pretty as you please.

I originally bought this to help me tune my arrows, and being able to remove the insert easily to adjust shaft length. After using it several times and noticed that there was no sign of the insert coming out, I decided to test this glue by shooting an arrow with a 250gr. Field tip in a ¾” piece of plywood at 20 yards.

I was not gentle be any means while trying to remove the arrow from the plywood, I was trying to make the insert pull out, it didn’t budge. I have shot thousands of arrows, not one insert has pulled out.

 www.shop.bigjimsbowcompany.com/Quick-Stick-Hot-Melt-Glue-AA102.htm

[Duker]

Informative video     THANKS Bruce

[kat]

I use loctite 380 and brass inserts. It is a cold application, (stored in the refrigerator), and holds better than any glue I have tried. Best of all, if you want to remove it you can.  I heat up the end of the insert with a field tip in it over an alcohol burner, and it comes right out without damaging the carbon arrow. I have done this multiple times on the same arrow without damage or bending of the shaft.

[Big Ed]

Watch the heat, it will break down the epoxy properties that bind the carbon together!!

[South MS Bowhunter]

Bruce,

I have that same glue, but with my arrows i have had the inserts pull out.  Not sure if these arrows are the issue or not but the inserts do pull out.  I seen the video and purchased some from Big Jim back at the Howard Hill Classic.  Do you prep the arrow before gluing?

[BigJim]

Prepping is not necessary. Heat the glue, roll the insert in the glue and heat the glue on the insert a little. do not over do the heat!

When installing, if the glue cools and the insert is forced in, it can slip. You can feel the insert slip as you install. again, just the right amount of heat is necessary. Not a very difficult thing to do but you must be cautious.
bigjim

[South MS Bowhunter]

Jim,

That the way i've been doing it, but ive had my inserts still pull out when I miss and hit trees, roots, etc...    It's been the same with Ferritite (sp)  and other hot melts.  What am I doing wrong?

[ROB TAYLOR]

Ummm....JB Weld IS epoxy....just a point of order.

[gonefishing600]

Yes, I take a round arrow wire brush thats made to brush the inside of the arrow to get any carbon dust out.

Just speculating a bit, but It's possible that the way you have been installing your inserts, the excess heat may be distorting the end of the shaft.

You install them the way Jim shows you on that video, they won't come out.

[BigJim]

I don't understand what could be the problem. I don't ever clean a shaft. Simply cut and install insert. It is such a rareity for me to loose an insert that I don't even remember the last time.

I will tell you that I have had one pull our a 1/4" and I forced it back in and never had it come back out.
Just in case, I'll highlight procedure: heat glue, roll end of insert in hot glue, when done with all inserts, re-heat glue on end of insert. Only heat a little and test. If it is not hot enough, heat a little more until you have the timing figured out.
Too little heat is better than too much. You can always heat a little more, but you can't fix a damaged shaft.
Rotate insert as installing so as to distribure glue. Fully seat insert and either wipe of excess, or let dry and peel off the ring of excess. If there is not a small ring formed at the end of shaft, you may not be using enough glue.
HOLD ON, I JUST HAD A THOUGHT. If you are using Carbon Express shafts, you will need to prep them by cleaning out the inside with denatured acetone. They use a ton of mould release and the shafts are very oily. We have had a few inserts slip in those shafts.
thanks,bigjim

[Jeff Strubberg]

I've lost countless inserts with CX shafts.  My solution was to stop using hot mely and use Goat Tuff instead.  After three years with cyanocrylic, the only inserts I've lsot are when I manage to do something dumb and destroy the front inch of the arrow shaft (like hitting a concrete wall from fifteen feet away).

[maineac]

Does denatured alcohol work or does it have to be acetone?

[South MS Bowhunter]

Jim the shafts in question start with the letters G T (must be me that doing something wrong) and beside maybe too much heat I'm doing it likenyou have stated.

[BigJim]

use the denatured alcohol. Jeff, not all hot melt are created equal.

thanks,bigjim

[sticbow]

the gold tip staff says never clean the inside of the shaft with anything the carbon absorbs it an will not let the glue stick.use big jims hot melt..i put a alum 1" foot on my stumping arrows an you can shoot rocks with them only the nocks suffer..