Razor Edge vs. File-Sharp Edge?

[Gdpolk]

Now that I know how to sharpen, I get mine sharp enough to split my wife's hairs lengthwise.  File sharpened works just fine, but if I have the time and skill, why not get them as sharp as possible?

[BWallace10327]

Has anyone honed the first 1" of their broadhead edge to a razors edge and left the rest "file sharp"?  It seems that you would not lose the penetration associated with the honed sharpening technique and you would get to keep the clot resistant ragged cut found with the rough edge of a file sharpened point.

[Bobby Urban]

When I hunted with two blade heads I would use the serrated technique described in the video until I read an article by Gene Wensel mentioning a metal checkering file.  The are available through Brownell's I believe.  Anyway, upon the suggestion, I used it to make the back 1/2 of my broadheads serrated and then sharpened as usual with my Lansky providing the best of both worlds and they were nasty!!  I have been shooting WW's for years so those heads have been collecting dust.  Maybe I'll figure out a way to do it on a 3 blade head and try that.

[park]

bwallace wasp makes a broadhead called a buzzcut that is smooth up front and serrated in the back.i guess thats what they had in mind when they made it.the thing i have wrong with serrated is it clogs with hair and fat and causes resistance.i have read that a chipped flint edge is sharper then a scalpel because it is made by nature and is thinner then sharpened steel.if you think about it a serrated edge with its little tips should cause less drag because only the tips are cutting.im no saxton pope but he was no ishi either.

[Kevin Dill]

I decided to file one side of my edge, and hone the other. Now I can have the best of both...right?     :rolleyes:

[BWallace10327]

I am usually sorry when I bring up a thought that lures in the very best smart ass comments.  It never fails.

[Friend]

Edge Finish                       - A smooth, beard shaving sharp honed & stropped edge works best
                                                        - 26% advantage over smoothly filed sharp edge
                                                        - 60% advantage over serrated edges

[Kevin Dill]

Brent: you have my apology. I didn't read through all the comments before posting...and I should have done that. I can easily see where you'd think I was cracking wise on your idea. That was definitely not the case. Again...my apology. Kevin

[TaterHill Archer]

Originally posted by Friend:
Edge Finish                       - A smooth, beard shaving sharp honed & stropped edge works best
                                                        - 26% advantage over smoothly filed sharp edge
                                                        - 60% advantage over serrated edges

Interesting numbers.  Are these from an Ashby article?

[Friend]

TaterHill Archer...Yes, they be.

[Sharpster]

Originally posted by Mr. fingers:
Byron ferguson said surgeons have their scalpels surgically sharp so it penetrates better which is good. It reduces hemorrhaging. but we want them to hemorrhage. And it reduces scarring which is kinda of a moot point . So he prefers Fred Bear sharp. Or a rougher edge.
IMO when you cut yourself shaving it heals up fast. But if you ever cut yourself with a serrated or a rough edge it tends to be harder to stop the bleeding and does not heal as fast.

Sorry that's backwards... honed and stropped edges cause greater hemorrhaging and also limit the body's ability to clot. There's a sound physiological reason that when we nick ourselves with our shaving razors that the little nick bleeds, and bleeds, and bleeds some more.

Ron

[Easykeeper]

Put me in the honed, polished, can't be too sharp group.

[Fletcher]

I've killed with both file sharp edges and honed and stropped.  For me, the smooth stropped edge has always produced a quicker kill and shorter better blood trails.  They just cut and bleed better.  

Can't really compare the scalpel edge with a broadhead.  Scalpels are sharpened to a very thin edge.  It is very sharp but not durable, which is why they are quickly discarded.  Broadheads are sharpened to a steeper angle that is almost as sharp, but much more durable.  Most sharpening "studies" have found a 45 degree total angle to be about the best compromise between durable and sharp.

For those that use a serrated edge, there is a difference between keen and merely rough. I have noticed more of a difference in blood trails with single bevel versus double bevel, when comparing the same broadhead than with shaving sharp versus a very keen serrated edge. For very hard metal shaving sharp just makes more sence. However, with heads that are 45 Rockwell, I would like to say that I have noticed an improvement over serrated, but I have not really seen that. In a number of cases I have to say that a very keen serrated edge has left blood trails a blind man could follow. It all depends on what was cut, in those cases with extreme blood trails, and short as well, arteries were completely severed. With softer heads I would go with a very keen serrated edge over a kinda sharp smooth edge, I have seen over the years when guys just get a small burr going on softer heads and call it good enough, very soon later, the burr is gone and the head is dull. Some heads, like the newer Grizzlies, do not develope a larger burr while sharpening, but when they get to that easily shaving sharp level, they stay that way longer. Most of our broadheads heads are now Grizzlies.

[lpcjon2]

Originally posted by Sharpster:
 

Originally posted by Mr. fingers:
Byron ferguson said surgeons have their scalpels surgically sharp so it penetrates better which is good. It reduces hemorrhaging. but we want them to hemorrhage. And it reduces scarring which is kinda of a moot point . So he prefers Fred Bear sharp. Or a rougher edge.
IMO when you cut yourself shaving it heals up fast. But if you ever cut yourself with a serrated or a rough edge it tends to be harder to stop the bleeding and does not heal as fast.

Sorry that's backwards... honed and stropped edges cause greater hemorrhaging and also limit the body's ability to clot. There's a sound physiological reason that when we nick ourselves with our shaving razors that the little nick bleeds, and bleeds, and bleeds some more.

Ron [/b]

When we nick our face it bleeds more do to the amount of capillaries in the face and soft tissue in the face. When you get cold your face will turn red, does your arm or hand do that? more capillaries = more bleeding. Its been my observation doing hundred or so autopsy's that ragged wounds loose more blood that smooth ones, ragged torn tissue separates and smooth lacerations tend to close easier.

  All said a rotating broadhead impacts and still rotates during entrance causing an open wound razor or file sharp.JMHO

[ymountainman]

I called Jack Zwickey on the phone on how to sharpen a delta. He said i was messing with it to much! He said it comes with a burr on it just knock the burr off with a file and go hunt! I sharpen ace's too, with a file they will ROLL the hair off my calf! It takes less than 3mins per head to sharpen and the head will be just as sharp a year from now too. Those fine edges seem to dull in just a day or two. Just my 2cents.

[Butch Speer]

Originally posted by lpcjon2:
 

Originally posted by Sharpster:
 

Originally posted by Mr. fingers:
Byron ferguson said surgeons have their scalpels surgically sharp so it penetrates better which is good. It reduces hemorrhaging. but we want them to hemorrhage. And it reduces scarring which is kinda of a moot point . So he prefers Fred Bear sharp. Or a rougher edge.
IMO when you cut yourself shaving it heals up fast. But if you ever cut yourself with a serrated or a rough edge it tends to be harder to stop the bleeding and does not heal as fast.

Sorry that's backwards... honed and stropped edges cause greater hemorrhaging and also limit the body's ability to clot. There's a sound physiological reason that when we nick ourselves with our shaving razors that the little nick bleeds, and bleeds, and bleeds some more.

Ron [/b]

When we nick our face it bleeds more do to the amount of capillaries in the face and soft tissue in the face. When you get cold your face will turn red, does your arm or hand do that? more capillaries = more bleeding. Its been my observation doing hundred or so autopsy's that ragged wounds loose more blood that smooth ones, ragged torn tissue separates and smooth lacerations tend to close easier.

  All said a rotating broadhead impacts and still rotates during entrance causing an open wound razor or file sharp.JMHO [/b]

I wouldn't have thought that dead things would bleed much. Platelets cause clotting. They have more surfaces to cling to with ragged cuts & less surfaces on smooth cuts.

[JimB]

I hone mine these days.Back when I didn't know how,I didn't.There is a science behind the bleeding and lack of clotting from a honed,polished blade but I haven't memorized it.I have talked to doctors and a pathologist about it and they agreed.

[JimB]

Here is an excerpt:
"When all else is equal there's absolutely no question which
type of edge finish makes a cut that bleeds the longest and most
freely; it's the one made by the thinnest, sharpest, smoothest
edge. That's a medical and physiological fact. Why? Because the
thinner, sharper and smoother the cutting edge the less
disruption there is to the cells lining the inner wall of each
blood vessel cut. What does disruption of the blood vessel's
inner cell-lining have to do with the rate and degree of
bleeding from a cut? Disruption of these cells is what initiates
the blood's clotting process, known as coagulation.
Each vessel-lining cell that's disrupted releases the
protein prothrombin. As prothrombin comes into contact with the
blood's plasma it is converted to the enzyme thrombin. Thrombin
acts as a catalyst, converting fibrinogen in the blood into
fibrin; the final chemical reaction required for blood
coagulation. Coagulation stops or retards the rate of
hemorrhaging - exactly what the bowhunter does not want to
happen.
The 'rougher' a cutting edge is the more it mangles the
tissues, tearing rather than slicing cleanly. That means more
vessel-lining cells will be damaged, and the amount of
disruption to each damaged cell will be greater. The more cells
damaged, and the greater the damage to each cell, the greater
the amount of prothrombin released. The more prothrombin
released, the more thrombin produced. The more thrombin there
is, the more fibrinogen converted to fibrin. The more fibrin
produced the shorter the clotting time. The shorter the clotting
time, the sooner blood loss decreases and/or stops. The sooner
the bleeding subsides, the less the total blood loss."

For anyone wishing to read it in it's entirety:
 http://www.tuffhead.com/ashby_pdfs/ashby%20ours/Getting%20an%20Edge%20on%20Success.pdf

[Blaino]

Originally posted by Blaino:
take a look at this.

  http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=17;t=000002  

that’s how i do it now.... i know a lot of people like a smooth surgical sharp blade.  i don't.  if you know a surgeon ask them why they use what they do.  here's a hint, it ain't what we want as bowhunters.

My first post is over 2 years old.  I have learned a lot in thoes 2 years and have taken deer with both types of edges since....

My opinion has changed, a razor / bur free edge is best.

Truth is they both work great when delivered in the right spot.