Why 20 yds, Are we Mental???

[Caleb the bow breaker]

Hi all,

Was reading the thread on how far most shoot when hunting and almost everyone weighs in under 20 yards.  I also shoot best at the 15-17 yard mark.  I guessI am writing this is to see if others think it is a mental thing rather than a form or equipment thing?  

I mean consider this.  If you are to the right 1 inch at 10 yards that is pretty good, the way I understand things if you shot the same shot at 20 you would only be right of the target 2 inches.  But for me that isnt what really happens.  It seems like anything over 20 yards and my groups fall apart and there isnt any consistency.  Which makes me think more and more that it is a concentration problem, not an accuracy problem???

Does anybody have any thoughts or experience with this topic.  I guess it seems to me that archers might need to practice their concentration as much or more than their shooting?????


C

[huskyarcher]

I agrre with you, my shooting goes to pot at 20 yards and beyond, idk why but at 15 and under i kill them 95% of the time.

[KodiakMag]

If you are confident of your shot and have practiced it take it. If you can shoot a deer at 60 yds and it feels right do it. If a deer is at 10 and doesn't feel right, pass.
And yes, at longer ranges concentration plays a major part also, your arrow starts to drop off dramatically.

[KentuckyTJ]

To me 15-20 yards is ideal as I hunt from elevated stand positions and that is an ideal distance for a better shot trajectory on both my targets lungs and not too far for my accuracy to suffer.

[longbowray]

I live in az where 20 yards is a good but it more like 30 is the shot you get . So I shoot at 40 & 50 alot  so that 30 my groups are 6 in .

[Night Wing]

The chance of wounding a deer, instead of killing it, is greater at longer yardages.

[joe skipp]

My practice sessions include shooting out to 40 yds. I concentrate harder when shooting longer distances and I'm confident with my gear and ability out to 40.

I agree most of our bow shots are under 20 yds but it's a good feeling to know you have the ability to accurately place your arrow into the vitals beyond the 20 yd mark. Bottom line, you have to take your shots within your comfort zone or effective shooting distance.

If that distance is 20 yds and less, no problem but it wouldn't hurt during each session to try and increase that distance. The more you practice and concentrate your accuracy will improve at the longer distances.

[Bill Carlsen]

I think, personally, the the demise of NFAA field archery was the demise of a lot of accurate shooting. We shot 4 arrows at ranges from 10 feet to 80 yards for 18 targets for the morning and the same for the afternoon. Think about how many arrows that is and how important shooting a good group is to be able to be competitive...and how  you learned to shoot and judge distances. Now you go to a 3D shoot and get one shot per target, and shoot, in a day, about 1/4 of the arrows we used to shoot. No groups, no yardage, no chance to understand the mistake you made if you miss and worse, no chance to repeat a good shot. Back then 40 yards was, for most of us, an acceptable hunting shot and many of us could do it. I can't do it as well any longer but I can remember being able to kill woodchucks out to 50 yards  on a regular basis.

[oxnam]

If someone can stack arrows at 15 yards and their tight groups turn into patterns at 25 it is probably somewhat of a mental block.  The same good form at 15 yards should yield good results at 25.

I think for a lot of people, it gets exponentially harder becuase adjustments have to be made.  If you are an instinctive shooter, your sight picture from 10-17 yards probably looks the same so no real adjustments have to made.  Learn that one shot very well and most hunting situations will provide an animal in that window.  Out beyond that the mind works harder for the less familiar sight picture.

I have seen too many trad archers that seem to use lack of sights and wheels as an excuse for poor shooting.  With in reason we should be able to hold our own with compounders out to 25-30 yards.

[mrjsl]

It mostly has to do with how people practice.

Out to 20 yards with most trad bows, trajectory is not a huge issue. At longer distances it becomes a much bigger issue.

Out to 20 yards, you can have acceptable form and still be accurate. At longer distances, you must have great form to be consistent.

I practice out to 40 regularly and next summer I plan to set up my range so I can shoot out to 50 at least.

You just have to shoot a lot of arrows at longer ranges, the same way you did to become accurate out to 20 yards. You may find you need to change some things to hit at 40.

[Javi]

Bill I still shoot field archery, although the NFAA has dropped the max yardage to 50 for trad... It's 28 targets.. 4 arrows each a total of 112 shots not counting an animal round.. We normally shoot either 14 field and 14 hunter or a full course of 28 targets field and 28 targets hunter.. Field is the white target with black rings and hunter is the the black target with white rings.. Animal round is the old paper animal targets..

I still shoot the full range (80 yards) in practice..

[Forrest Halley]

I'd have to say that 20 yds is a distance I am most comfortable with as it is where I practice most. I'd only take a long shot if it didn't feel long. If it feels long, it feels wrong, because I'm now debating the range internally instead of concentrating of my spot. The ten yard shots and the 30 yard shots are something that I concentrate more on. The reason being is that 10 yds is an uncommon range for me to shoot in practice generally as it is tedious. When I shoot at ten yards I accept nothing but the x ring and consider all else to be a miss. I am comfortable at 20 because it is the right mix of distance and walk for a good practice session with few arrows. When I have more arrows I like to shoot longer distances because I am able to sustain the desired workout tempo mentally and physically. I enjoy shooting for the same time amount it takes me to get to and from the target. I like about three at ten, 6 at twenty, twelve at thirty, and 24 at fifty. I find that at the longer ranges the trajectory is better ingrained with the higher shooting volume. Bottom line is deer aren't targets.  You have to figure out where you are most effective as a shooter and know your setup's effective range, the shorter one is your max hunting distance.

[BEN]

another point, I'd think, is that it's much harder to pick a SMALL spot the farther you get esp. if you'r hunting in the shadows, low light etc...I know for me, alot of times as light gets dimmer, it's really hard to pick out a small point and all I really am looking at is a solid slab of color when I look ata deer----I often pass on shots during the first/last 15-20 min. of light because of it  :rolleyes:  

but, the coyote I shot a couple yrs ago was 33 paces from my stand---never even thought about it---just pulled and let it go>>>-------> and just as dead as it would have been at 10 yds......so, some mental blocking as well, I'm sure, and not as much practice at further distances makes us NOT trust our instinct that far out cause it really hasn't been developed??  

[ron w]

Shooting for groups is good, but I like to think that shooting to keep an arrow in the kill zone is  better all around. Shoot at a ball or something similar....like the size of a soccer ball. Kick it around shoot at it from many yardages. Use a blunt so you don't ruin it. A friend told me about this and I think it works. Don't think about how far it is....think on making the shot. Stump'n is also good to keep your hunting shots in tune. Hey, take the ball out stumping.....try it you'll like it. I also like 15-18 yards....lol!

[Jeff Strubberg]

First, I think it's a focus thing.  That's why most people start having trouble after a given yardage.

Second, it's a TIME issue. The longer the shot, the longer the arrow hangs in the air.  More time for your target to do something you didn't expect.

[straitera]

Good points! Yardages are most meaningful to those who practice at known yardages. IMO, this is where the train jumps track in hunting situations. Not to say you can't kill deer at "x" known distance; however, those distances are limiting in & of themselves. The comfort zone may be expanded from the confidence of NOT knowing the distance. That is, practice away from known distances to hone instinctive ability. BTW, Not a license to sling haymakers to excessive yardages. (I last measured my kill distance at 24 steps afterwards. Normally I don't even care to measure.) Just an alternative shot sequence to thinking distance.

Also, not meant to discredit anyone shooting any way they prefer. If it ethically works for you make it work.

I think repeatedly pounding the same target at the same distance for long periods with the goal of shooting tighter groups can eventually become a limiting pattern. When doing this, I find myself feeling that 24 yards is way out there. Yet when I go out with a quiver full of blunts and target squirrels, cone flowers heads and milkweed seed pods that after a while 30 yards is spitting distance, and after a week of it I can shoot pretty good out to over 40 yards. It seems my wife tends to pick targets at a consistent 43 yards when stump shooting after two weeks of stump shooting part of the way out to where we have been hunting these past years, a two mile hike.  Before arrows got so expensive, we used to go out and see what we could hit. Ground squirrels at long ranges, pigeons, passing bumble bees, clay pigeons, the more challenging the more fun. I think part of Howard Hill's success was just that, not always seeing how tight of a group he could shoot, but testing himself to see what he could pull off.  It is the difference between a target shooter and a multi-species hunter.

[Javi]

Originally field archery split from target archery in 1939 because the participants wanted to practice in hunting situations at unknown distances and field archery was born with shots at ranges of 20 feet to 100 yards all unknown.. Later with the advent of sights the yardage was changed to known and the distance shortened to 80 yards as a maximum.. A field course is great practice even for the instinctive shooter like me, knowing the yardage isn’t an issue but hitting the target is.. Also for those who may not know this each 14 target set has 10 targets that you will shoot all 4 arrows from the same position. There will be 3 more targets that are called walk-ups and you get to move closer to the target after each shot. That leaves 1 target where you will shoot all your arrows from one distance but will move laterally between each shot. This target is called the 35 yard fan. The 3 walk-ups are 80-70-60-50 yards, 45-40-35-30 yards and 35-30-25-20 feet. That last one is called the Bunny target. The other two are known as the 80 yard walk-up and the 45 yard walk-up. The targets where you shoot all 4 arrows from the same position are at the distances 15, 20, 25, 30, 40, 45, 50, 55, 60 and 65 yards. So the farthest distance, from which you will shoot all 4 arrows, is 65 yards. Most ranges are not on flat ground and often there are shots both up and down hill and plenty of side hill shots as well. Then there is the Hunter course with similar ranges except at odd distances

I often take my more advanced students to the range here in Waco and we walk the course shooting from both known and unknown distances..

[Green]

Javi - I guess the surgery was a success if you're already posting up all this great info.  I'd like to shoot that course with you sometime.  Hope you're feeling pretty good.

[Margly]

For my self I feel that the possibility for errors is proposal to the distance.
To much can happen from release to impact @ longer distances.

My killzone is in my mind ca 25 yards! Why?
Because if I make tast rule I'm not going to shoot at 35 yards in the heat of the moment.

Still I'm confident out to ca 45-50 yards, and practice at those distances reguraly for being able to deliver good shots also for recovery if thats needed:)