Why 20 yds, Are we Mental???

[Javi]

Originally posted by Green:
Javi - I guess the surgery was a success if you're already posting up all this great info.  I'd like to shoot that course with you sometime.  Hope you're feeling pretty good.

Yep surgery went well, no problems and now all I got to do is sit on my butt all weekend... Hope all my friends hitting the woods this weekend get a good one..

Rob, we'll hit the field course soon my friend..

[L. E. Carroll]

I think your right on the money... Recently at a shoot we had a night shoot where only glow sticks were visible hung on to "Kill Zones" of various 3d targets at unknown ranges [ I confirmed about 12-25 yards the next morning ]... It was totally dark.. You could not even see your bow in front of you. I shot a 50 out of possible 60 ... 5 points for a kill zone and 3 for a bodyshot [ head and legs did not count]. I missed 1 of 12 animals completely.

Definately it's a concentration thing, at least for me, as the following morning I shot the same set of targets and by "Overthinking too much" was able to only score a 30.... Reverts back to the old "pick a spot and conentrate" in my case.. Try this type of shooting sometime... It was my "First" time and really opened my eyes.  :eek:  
Gene

[ron w]

To keep your hunting distances in focus....next time you do a 3-D do what we call hunters scoring. Inside the 8 ring is a 1 or kill. Outside the 8 ring[body] is a -1 [wound]. A miss is a miss = 0. The scores at the end of the shoot will open some eyes!

[xtrema312]

20 for me can be harder than 25 and 30.  I think it is about my max gap and or the point trajectory kicks in more, and my brain doen't line up the shot so well at that range.

[Kituwa]

I think the biggest reason we pratice and shoot at shorter ranges today is that arrows now cost $80 -over$100 a dozen,,,lol.

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

Originally posted by Javi:
Bill I still shoot field archery, although the NFAA has dropped the max yardage to 50 for trad...

They dropped it to fifty? Really? Good grief. That round was standardized in 1942 when folks shot simple backed bows and wood arrows. But I guess it's too hard for today's archers using fiberglass limbs and carbon arrows.
   

[TRAD101]

I determine my max yardage by whether or not I can focus on a golf tee at the distance I am shooting (20 yards for me). My eyes are getting old.

[toddster]

i know as most of us do that we can shoot further, the saints of bowhunting did.  where it is thick so this is what dictates, if i had a place to practiced at 60 yrds would shoot a deer there

[Blaino]

i agree with not being able to pick out a spot within the spot at long distances.  i practice at 40+ yards a lot even though i never "plan" to shoot that far. i figured it would make my 20 yard shots feel closer.... with that being said i had a deer last year that i was going to shoot but she didn't take the next step like i wanted her to.  after the hunt was over i steped it off to 37 steps. it was a bright sunny day and i could see her very well.  i figured that was why i felt so confident that i could have made the shot....

[Autumnarcher]

For me, shooting longer distances becomes tougher as with the heavy arrows I shoot, beyond about 20 yds or so, the arrow drop is a big factor. It takes a lot more time shooting those longer shots to dial in.

Shooting at the hay bale, I have fits with it. But like was mentioned before, start shooting judos or blunts while stump shooting, and I shoot much better.

But in the end, when shooting at game instead of pinecones, its boils down to at what distance can I be perfectly confident my arrow will make a killing shot. It varies a little from year to year, depending on how much shooting Ive done. But typically for me,about  20 is my max.

[Swamp Yankee]

Let's face it, even with unmarked ranges in 1942, it wouldn't take those gap shooters more than a couple of rounds to get the distances memorized.  I wasn't around in the 40's, but I can tell you neither the shooting stakes or the targets moved on field rounds in the 50's and 60's; and I don't remember competing against anyone who didn't use a sight, gap or string walk system.  I'd argue todays traditional bowhunters are better shots and restrict themselves to shorter ranges because they believe it's more ethical to do.  Most of you know the stories of many bowhunting greats in the past taking shots we'd consider unethical today.

[tecum-tha]

Well, shots at whitetail deer are save up to about 20 yards and then after about 32 yards.
In between the reaction of the deer to the sound of the string will make for high shots or even spine shots or misses, because the deer's body is no longer there where the arrow was intended to be. I shot once a deer at about 38 yards, and it never new what hit it. This deer was feeding and was holding very still. So I took the shot and took out its heart. In the low light, I thought I missed, because the arrow passed fully through and looked like I shot over its back.
I once shot at a deer at 27 yards, and it duck my arrow and I shot over. I try to avoid the shots over 20 yards. Only in special circumstances I take a long shot beyond the 32 yard line.

Certainly, I used to hunt where there was a large oats bail. Every day I would round the corner and put my broadhead on that bail with my 90 pound longbow, point on. It was nearly 80 yards out, I have long point on for some reason. one day there was a fat doe feeding on that bail, I put the point on her and released, it looked like a perfect shot, then the doe took a couple of calm steps forward and the broadhead stuck in bail right where she was standing. I learned a good lesson that day. Keep it shorter and even then I wait until the deer is not likely to move unexpectedly.  I do shoot at them when they are walking and in close, I find that to be a predictable shot, since the deer's own motion helps to conceal my motion.

[Rob W.]

I switched to shooting the compound stakes at 3d shoots this year. Payed no attention to the yardages. Was only 20 points from my average the first time out. Now 30 feels like 20. Once your brain gets a chance to soak in some of the mental pictures it can figure everything else out pretty quickly.

I think standing at a known yardage and flinging arrows at a circle does nothing for our shooting after we have good form.


Rob

[TSP]

Targets are for fun, hunting is for real.  When targets suffer and die slowly and painfully from poor shot placement then maybe shooters might take the ethics issue more seriously.  Target practice, and attempting to kill real animals, are two entirely different exercises that should be treated accordingly.

I wonder how many that swear by the right to go long on critters (just because they can do it in practice) would do so if, say, they forfeited something valuable to them for every bad shot on animals that they made (their bow, car, pet, paycheck, a piece of their anatomy equitable to the unfortunate animals loss, etc.).  How would it feel to know that, before you shoot, the arrow you are about to release will have REAL consequences...to YOU?  Still think those long lobs are as attractive in that situation?

There are no hard lines when it comes to hunter ethics.  The shooter is free to make their own choices and just walk away from the outcome, regardless of what it is.  As an ethical archer all one can do is hope that, for the bad actors or those that just don't know any better, there's a lesson learned somewhere along the line.

[BS]

Clint Eastwood "Men must know their limitations"

It is about practice, the farther away that I shoot, the better I become at shorter distances.

When I was younger and shot more often.............I was a much better shot.....but, I am getting better........My goal is 4-5" groups at 35 yds.

[Friend]

Great shot execution may be acquired in short order or not in a lifetime. Beyond that it is 90% mental and 10% mental. The mental focus challenge is part of every shot.

For some, longer shots, such as extending the range from 10 to 20 yards, may yield much greater than calculated accuracy degradation. Loss of focus, modified shot execution and loss of confidence at the longer distance are a primary contributors.

Successful hunters who consistently score, know their effective hunting ranges. They accept and live by them for a given time and also as the situation dictates.

[Sam McMichael]

I also think it is largely a focus issue. I seldom practice at long range as it is extremely hard to pick and hold a precise spot. Rather, I tend to shoot the target as a whole without concentrating on a single point - thus groups get very wide. (I do know a lot of guys that do practice at greater range and perform quite well, but I am not one of them.) When I move back cloer to my comfortable distances, I find that I once again begin to focus on an exact impact point , and the groups get better.

[koger]

I dont worry as much about yardage, as my comfort zone. That said, every practice session I shoot to 45yds, at least a few times. I have taken deer, with my recurve, at 35yds, last buck was 27yds. If you practice the long yardage shots, even if you dont plan to take them, you will see your 25 and under groups shrink tremendously. It is like adding softwar to your computer hardrive, you will pick it up. I dont have to change anchor or facewalk, just shoot instinctive, and follow thru, good form, really shows up at longer yardage, so does bad form.!

[Bill Carlsen]

Just so people understand I am not saying you should shoot long distances in hunting situations. Every situation is different and sometimes a longer shot is a safer bet than a close one. I read this thread as having to do with accurate shooting. I simply believe that being able to shoot well at short and long distances is desireable. I do take issue with this statement by Swamp Yankee..."I'd argue todays traditional bowhunters are better shots and restrict themselves to shorter ranges because they believe it's more ethical to do". We must be going to different shoots because the level of accuracy I see, even in the 15 to 20 yard range is definitely not up to par with what I was seeing in the 50's, 60's and even 70's. In fact, a lot of the shooting I see is extremely bad.  And today's equipment, for most of us, is much better and higher quality. As for ethical...for each of us it's different because  our skills sets are different and the conditions we find ourselves in can vary. Shooting distance is only one of them. It's raining here today...is it wise or ethical for me to be hunting? I've lost deer on days like this just because blood trails vanish quickly...so distance to the deer is not the issue. Recovery of the game is. So, if the rain lets up a bit, and I decide to hunt, I will most likely not hunt on the swampiest part of my property where trailing is tough on a clear day.
Having said all that I do believe that we should all know and live within our known effective accuracy range when it comes to hunting. I also believe that most of us are not as accurate as we could be at many ranges....even the close ones.