Chasing the bur... help me!

[nightowl1]

I can not get my zwickey no mercy 4 blades to shave. I get them "sharp" but no where close to what I am use to. I can't shave with them, all my knives shave, my machete shaves, my wetterling axe shaves, and my magnus shaves...

What can I be doing wrong?

I can feel the bur going from one side to the other. What do i do next?

I bought the accusharp to follow Terry's how to but I get a burr and but no better.

I have files, spyderco triangle, accusharp and smiths sharpener...Someone walk me through this.

[Shawn Leonard]

I will say this, I am not trying to shave with my broadheads!! I am trying to kill stuff, I never get my Snuffers to shave, not that they won't but I never try. They are plenty sharp to punch through critters and tonight with a light touch slice through my finger pretty easily and cleanly. Someone will come on to help, but I don't get it. A burred edge has kill plenty of stuff for years. Ever try and shave hair with a knapped head, not easy but man it slices thru hide,hair and even soft bone pretty easy. Shawn

[xtrema312]

[nightowl1]

Thanks for the reply Shawn. I guess I'm just not familiar with what people refer to as sharp or sharp enough to hunt with.

When I refer to something being sharp I mean, handle with extreme care can, shave a patch with one or two swipes. So i guess I was just assuming that is what others were doing also.

So how do you tell when your heads are ready to hunt, if not shaving a patch of hair?

[Matthew Bolton]

Whenever I get something that is hard to get sharp I really "dig" into what I'm sharpening. I use a 12 inch file and on my first pass I hit it hard 8-10 times then just light strokes to clean it up. Hope this helps you out brother.

[Izzy]

Try a leather strop to remove the burr or rub the edge of blade away from you on a piece of soft pine if you dont have leather. These techniques have worked for me. A fine diamond stone has also worked. All three are great, its just a matter of what you have.

[Tutanka]

IMHO all broadheads should be able to shave hair.  If you have already gotten the bur on each side then the hard part is done.  Without knowing exactly how and what system you are using it is hard to give any suggestions.  However, I will try to explain my system, I will use flat stones for an example.  I will start with my lowest grit stone, typically some type of low grit diamond stone or a file.  I will work one side of the broadhead until a bur is raised the full length of the blade, I will then work the opposite side until a bur is raised again, I will also use some pressure during this phase. Once a full length bur has been raised the hard work is really done.  At this point I will then work each side in light alternating strokes.  The key hear is to use light pressure.  I will do this for a total of ten strokes, you should have a sharp edge at this phase, but might not be able to shave with it.  I will then move to higher grit stones, somewhere around 400 to 600 grit.  You can either raise a bur again at this point or not.  It really does not matter, just keep in mind that you need to use light strokes, really all that you are doing here is trying to refine the edge and polish it up a little bit. If you want a extremely polished edge you can keep moving up in grit.  

Shaving sharp broadheads are not all that hard to accomplish once you get a feel for it.  Check out the tutorials posted by  JimB and Landshark in the how to resources, I use both of these systems and let me tell ya they work.  If I can't shave with it, I don't use it, their is no reason to use a broadhead that won't shave in my opinion.

[Mr.Magoo]

You might just be pushing the burr over from one side to the other.  Either try very light strokes with a file, crock stick etc.. to take the burr off.  Or you can strop on a piece of cardboard or leather.

I don't care if the edge will shave either.  If it will pop a rubber band with minimal effort, it's good.

[mwosborn]

Been here before - I agree with Shawn - not shaving with them - need to be sharp but don't need to be shaving sharp.  IMO

[sawtoothscream]

i get the burr then nock it off with a piece of card board

[sawtoothscream]

but i also switched to double bevel. they are much easier to sharpen then the single bevel tuskers i have

[smokin joe]

After you get the burr, finish up with VERY light pressure -- just the weight of the file (or crock stick, or butcher's steel) -- for a few strokes.

It sounds to me like you are pushing the burr from one side to the other. You can do that all day and wonder why you never get completely sharp. You just need light pressure to knock the burr off without forming another burr.

[xtrema312]

So how do you know you have a burr?  What do you look or feel for and how do you check it to make sure your are ready to work the burr?  I wonder on my three blades if I am getting one or not.

[Kentucky Jeff]

Lots of ways to knock off the burr.  But first things first...removing the burr is not something you do just at the end of your sharpening session.  It should be done in between every change in stone grit or abrasive you use as you progress.  So if you start with a 400 grit stone be sure to remove the burr at that point before you move to the finer stone.  I promise that you will end up with a finer edge and have less trouble removing the burr you raise with the finer stone than if you try to do it all at the end.

As you determine that you have established the edge (by raising a burr) you need to lightly "strop" both sides of the edge using the same stone you used to raise the burr.  Light pressure and only a few strokes are required here--finesse!
You should be able to feel the burr go away.  But you are not done yet.  Run the edge through some cardboard, or a cork from a wine bottle.  I like to use a hard felt block.  Then strop the edge again on the stone and repeat the above until you are confident you have removed the burr.  Now move on to your next finer grade stone, raise the burr again, and repeat the above.  The final step for me is to simply strop the edge on either a leather or felt pad that I have treated with a diamond spray abrasive.  

The key again, is to strop at each step.  When you run the blade through the cork or cardboard you should be able to feel the difference between your stroppings and the blade should move more smoothly through the material.  

I hope I'm clear enough for you to get it.  

This is a link to one of Murray Carter's sharpening videos.  He uses a cinderblock and cardboard to sharpen a knife but its the technique he is demonstrating that is important...
   

[Kentucky Jeff]

Originally posted by xtrema312:
So how do you know you have a burr?  What do you look or feel for and how do you check it to make sure your are ready to work the burr?  I wonder on my three blades if I am getting one or not.

You should be able to feel it as you run your finger along the edge.  You want to be able to feel the burr along the entire length of the edge. Then you know you have established a new edge the entire length of the cutting surface.  Then you work on the other side and raise a burr in the opposite direction.  Once you have established a burr on both sides you can begin reducing the burr to establish a fine edge.

BTW, the above holds true for single bevel broadheads as well... You need to establish an edge on the opposite side of the bevel...its a smaller, very fine edge mind you.  But you need to establish an edge on both sides of a single bevel as well...

[Sharpster]

Wow, where to start...

Well if a BHD won't fluff hair off your arm, it may well be sharp enough to kill but the real object is to get the deer, bear, elk, moose or whatever  into the truck, and the sharper the head, the more blood there will be on the ground.  

Shot placement is the most important aspect of game recovery but as I've said in the past, an animal can be killed with a well placed target point but there won't be any bloodtrail to follow.

Here's a over exaggerated burr,

 

There is a razor sharp edge beneath the burr. Now how do we get it off withou chasing it back/forth all day? Simple... make sure the burr is completely folded or stropped over to one side of the blade, NOT straight out off the edge like it is in the picture. Now with a medium or fine grit stone, or even a file if that's what you like, make a light pass straight into the edge in order to shear that burr off. If you're using a file it will only take a couple of very light passes. If your using stones it will take a few more but either way, make sure that the stone or file is moved  into the edge  and there's no way that the burr can "escape" to the other side.

Alternatively, a  light  burr can be stropped off by working it back and forth on a piece of leather or cardboard just like a piece of metal will break if it's bent back/forth repeatedly.

Ron

[Kentucky Jeff]

One thing many people have problems with in terms of removing the burr is they don't actually remove it but just straighten it out.  This results in something called a wire edge and you will frequently hear people complain about the quality of steel used in knives that "roll the edge" when in fact what they have done through bad sharpening technique is created a wire edge on a blade that in fact "feels" sharp but is too fine to do any real work.   You can test for a wire edge but taking what you think in your finished edge and taking a few cuts with some pressure across the grain of any wood.  Most any wire edge will fold after two or three passes.  A true edge should be as sharp as before.

[2020]

sharpening things is an art and also can drive you crazy,as you all my knives pop hair I use a 3 side jewel stick,after 15 years of trad hunting and sharpening broadheads I decided to use the accusharp it put more of a serrated edge on the blade not that good at shaving hair but cuts great and easy to use for 3 blades I use the jewel stick,I personally like the more rough but very sharp edge over the fine shaving edge,THEY BOTH WILL WORK,also make your edge with a sharpie marker and you will see where you are cutting steel when working it,good luck!

[Sharpster]

Originally posted by Kentucky Jeff:
 

Originally posted by xtrema312:
So how do you know you have a burr?  What do you look or feel for and how do you check it to make sure your are ready to work the burr?  I wonder on my three blades if I am getting one or not.

You should be able to feel it as you run your finger along the edge.  You want to be able to feel the burr along the entire length of the edge. Then you know you have established a new edge the entire length of the cutting surface.  Then you work on the other side and raise a burr in the opposite direction.  Once you have established a burr on both sides you can begin reducing the burr to establish a fine edge.

BTW, the above holds true for single bevel broadheads as well... You need to establish an edge on the opposite side of the bevel...its a smaller, very fine edge mind you.  But you need to establish an edge on both sides of a single bevel as well... [/b]

Exactly.  If there is no burr, when you gently pull your fingertips out from under the blade, it will feel smooth as glass. Once you have a burr it will feel slightly coarse and ragged when you do the same thing. One way to know for sure is to use a piece of wool or a cotton ball. Hold that to the blade and pull straight out away from the cutting edge. If there is a burr there it will snag the fibers of the wool or cotton ball. oh yea, and once you have the burr... it's all over but the shoutin'.

Ron

[Kentucky Jeff]

Originally posted by 2020:
sharpening things is an art and also can drive you crazy,as you all my knives pop hair I use a 3 side jewel stick,after 15 years of trad hunting and sharpening broadheads I decided to use the accusharp it put more of a serrated edge on the blade not that good at shaving hair but cuts great and easy to use for 3 blades I use the jewel stick,I personally like the more rough but very sharp edge over the fine shaving edge,THEY BOTH WILL WORK,also make your edge with a sharpie marker and you will see where you are cutting steel when working it,good luck!

I wouldn't call it an art.  I'd call it a learned skill.  Most anyone can do it well with some instruction and the proper tools.  No magic here--just a little practice and study and enough experience doing it to develop some technique.