"Handshock"... need some honest help

[Orion]

All bows have hand shock, and until someone makes a bow that is 100% efficient, they will continue to have it. As has already been pointed out by 7lakes, the excess energy stored in the limbs has to go somewhere at release.  It is dissipated through limb vibration and  riser vibration that is transmitted to the bow hand.  That's what we feel as hand shock. Now some bows have less of it than others and some folks are less sensitive to it than others, but it's always there.  

The major characteristics that lessen hand shock are bow design (high r/d bows usually have less), heavier, stiffer risers and lighter limbs as well as proper tiller, as Sixby pointed out, overall bow weight (heavier bows generally have reduced hand shock) heavier arrows, thinner, fast flite type strings, grip design, and of course the grip itself.  The tighter the bow is gripped, the more the vibrating bow can work on the hand/wrist/arm. There are probably a few other causal factors as well, but that's most of them.

[RC]

I can tell you fellas I love to shoot a Hill bow as much as anyone.BUT if I shoot one a lot for several weeks my shoulder and elbow will hurt like a toothache. I let it heal and shoot other bows a while no problem. Pick up the Hill and shoot only it for a week. Back to the Advil.

[Fritz]

Not sure about a Hill style longbow, as I have never shot one. My Centaur and Pronghorn are both dead in the hand.

[GingivitisKahn]

Originally posted by Swamp Yankee:
That's it; I'm tired of this arguement      
Guess I'll just have to buy a Hill and find out for myself.  Someone's gotta do it.

Don't get too tired of it - we have this one all the time.   :D

[YORNOC]

Arguing or not, I appreciate the great info I got from the thread. Lots of really good PM's too. Thanks everybody.

[Rob DiStefano]

i see absolutely no arguing, just differing points of view which beg personal testing.

[calico]

If you are so blessed, read, Traditional Bowyers of America: The Bowhunting and Bowmaking World of the Nation's Top Crafters of Longbows And Recurves by Dan Bertalan. There is a world of information on the who and how and why of crafting bows especially if considering a custom made bow.I have a pair of Hill style straight limb bows made here in NZ ( slight reflex in outer third of limb) and they shoot all day bows, pleasant to use, with the right arrow weight.

[Red Tailed Hawk]

quote:Originally posted by Rob DiStefano:
the classic longbow design ("hill style", elb, "indian bow", whatever), whether backset, straight or bellyset limbs, has an inherent "handshock".  it's there to some degree, mostly more than the shooter likes.  oh yes it's there.  always has, always will be - pure physics.  

it (the shock) is a by-product of design that can be *tamed* in a variety of ways, but it's still there, waiting to bite you if you don't take measures into your hand (pun somewhat intended).  redirect that misguided energy with heavier missiles and minimal hand contact, for starters.  

take that same design and begin to snake the limbs and the shock value decreases.  we all know that, nothing new.  don't see what all the fuss is about .... it is what it is and you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.  and maybe we shouldn't.  i wouldn't.      

[Bill Turner]

Its all in the grip brother. Get Asbell's Instinctive Shooting 11. He does the best job of explaining how to shoot the longbow that I have seen. I shoot straight limb Howard Hill's and R/D Massie "Longhorns" without a hand shock issue. Keep the heel of your hand down and control the bow(strong grip). Totally different than a recurve.  

[Hattrick]

Longbows are like shotguns no matter how much they cost or how pretty they are. When one fits an feels right its right if it don't it wont.. You just have to go shoot sum till you find the right one. Morrsion an 21 century are the ones that fit me the best, after shooting them i can really feel the shock from other bows if i grab a different brand. They just fit me the best

[azhunter]

If I have to think about holding a bow a certain way to avoid hand shock or to get accurate groups then the bow is not for me. My current longbows have no hand shock. Zipper, Centaur, Lost Creek etc. Just grab the bow and the grip is natural, no thinking about it. I have owned plenty of bows that this was not the case and I sold them all.

[zinndl]

I shoot a GN Bushbow, straight grip, it came with a FF string and i never had any shock (at least not noticable). started making my  own strings and used B50 because of the price but then that baby rocked me, it hurt to shoot. must have got used to it though, its ok now. Try a FF string if you dont already have it.

One of the bloodiest and most successful bows I ever had was a Hill that I pulled to over 85 pounds, it kicked like a mule. Unless someone is suffering from a condition or an injury that is inflamed by shock, I think most of the time people make to big of a thing about it. Saying that, I would not suggest that someone take a harsher shooting longbow, straight arm it, try to squeeze blood out of the handle, and rip off the release. We tend to adapt to those bows that kick more by allowing the arm to act as a spring and make sure that our tuning and release and grip don't rattle the more sensitive joints.  There is a timing in our reactions that develops over time that seems to soften the blow.  I have noticed that after shooting heavy reflex longbows that the shock reduces. Then after I shoot a heavy handles lighter recurve for a while and my draw is lengthened with some stretching in my form, that when I go back to the longbows, the first shots are a bit surprising.  But, I'm a man, I can change, if I have to, I guess.

[YORNOC]

I agree with the injury. The shock ,although I realized it was there,  never really bothered me too much till the hand problem. Now it really hammers me.

[Rob DiStefano]

i think the first step in understanding "hand shock", or perhaps better described as "after shock", is realizing that all bows have it to one degree or another.  yup, all stick bows.  yes, even mine and yours.  

in a perfect world, 100% of limb energy would be transmitted to the arrow via the bowstring.  some amount of energy always goes back to the riser and to the bow holder's hand, and that shock wave routes itself through dense matter (bone) throughout the shooter (in some cases, "tooth rattling").  

there are material ways to absorb that wasted energy, and in the 60's and 70's, adding riser mass weight, and springs and rubber and mercury "shock absorbers" were used with noticeable results in stabilizing a bow during and after the arrow's release.  bowstring fiber type and strand count choices are other ways of taming the rattle.  and, of course, upping the arrow's mass weight.    

there are shooter form ways to help with the aftershock, such as minimizing bow hand contact.

after shock is there, learn to deal with it or try a different stick bow type with lesser amounts of the nasties.

[GRS]

Maybe you tend to notice "hand shock" in Hill bows because suddenly your ears aren't being assaulted with "bow noise"!    As soon as you get used to a silent bow, the "hand shock" goes away!        
Gerald

I think getting hung up on the shape of the limbs or pounds of pull and not the way one shoots or how a bow is actually going to be used can keep a good number of bowyers in business. I have a Groves Spitfire that is in nice shape. Not as heavy as my other bows, but the grip bruised a nerve on my thumb knuckle in just a few shots, leaving me with a numb spot on my thumb. I did a real nice job changing that grip so the grip would not put  all that pressure on the wrong spot. If I did not change it, I would not be able to shoot that bow. Now when I shoot the Groves, I feel like no less a hunter than when I shoot my heavier Hill style longbows. Yornoc, if you find that longbows that rattle your hand will not work for you, there are hybrids that can easily do most of the same things that any Hill style will do, except perhaps do it all with a faster arrow flight. objectively, you should deal with what you can do that will not cause pain and enjoy the plus side of a hybrid or nice recurve.  Those longbows are not as big a difference as some would suggest, I know, I own lots of them.

[YORNOC]

I hear ya, I just hate being limited on anything. A problem I've always had in life. My issue to deal with, but I'll fight it to my dying day.
Just makes me want to find a way to conquer it all the more. I'm looking at hybrids quite a bit since this thread came out.
 Going to experiment with some 2nd handers first. But I'll tell ya what, picking 1 bowyer from everyone here is torture.

If I were to be dead honest one of the best shooting longbows that can do everything a Hill style bow can do and more was a bow made a long time back that has the name Mike Ballenger on it. It is a bit different than what he is offering now, but still it is the most accurate longbow I have ever shot without the harshness. I gave it to a friend, because he needed a bow that could do what it did. I have been in the preplanning of giving the newest owner of Stotler bows a serious run for his money. Someone should warn him that I am a tough and very particular customer, when I make a custom bow order, I know exactly what I want and want exactly that. I could pull my few strands of hair I have left out because he told me that his recurve would not shoot so nice for me because of me shorter draw, but that's okay, I know what can be done with the longbow that will be just as good. The Stotler I had years ago was a no shock super fine bow. In a style and class of its own, damn! now I want one even worse.

[YORNOC]

Here's my Stotler recurve. Tried to sell it but it didnt go. Awwww, what a shame! I have to keep it!