Trail Cameras....ethical or not?

[Friend]

The technical advances are infringing heavily on ethical hunting. As many become more acclimated to the advances, they may be willing and often times accept them, even possibly as their own standard, and welcome more advantages and the cycle then  repeats itself..  The ethical standard continually degrades and it is amazing how rationalization, money and greed always seem to be significant drivers.

Hunting ethics are steadily and gradually subsiding at a pace that seems unnoticeable especially to the younger generations and even more so to those who are currently growing up where the decline is viewed as the norm. Where is the line? It is definitely not where it was established in the past. I have ascertained and stand firm that it is moving and in one direction.

When has the ethical standard been raised unless we have taken it upon ourselves personally?
Humans establish and rationalize its decline.  At what point will hunting fair chase be actually and fervently challenged?  Will it occur after technology advances make it impossible for any animal to escape from even the most novice hunter? Too bad the quarries we pursue have no say.

[jhg]

Originally posted by KentuckyTJ:

         
...Part of Teddy Roosevelts business plan and what he used to sell the deal in the first place to achieve his conservation efforts was it would also produce income....

Thanks TJ. I appreciate the link and follow up.
I don't have a problem with game generating income  for those who choose to make their livelihood around that. I took your statements as a wholesale condemnation. Sorry about that.
I think I fall into the camp that Kevin is building. Although we cannot resist the march of progress in regards to electronic devices such as game cams etc, we can influence how they are used and whether or not they are used. I feel that is a valid way forward.

Joshua

[KentuckyTJ]

I disagree. For what it is worth I have I believe reached my ceiling as far as trail cameras go with how I use them or any other technology concerning the way I hunt. I can see and agree with that any further use of them or any other gismo that is coming would be (for me) unethical to the game we chase. But as long as whatever is to come technology wise is producing income I know my choice to hunt the way I choose is protected. I strongly believe it would be foolish for me or you to fight technology and the insurance for us it brings.

We as traditional hunters are a very small part of a much larger community. The other part of OUR community that choose to hunt in different manners are the ones we need to thank and support for keeping our hunting safe because of the income they generate. Without them and their gismo's we are done.

[Rick Perry]

sorry boys and girls but if we reach the conclusion that trail cams really dont help all that much , Not nearly as much as portable tree stands , then we must also conclude that 80% let off bows , lazer range finders , drop away rests , flip open broadheads  and etc,etc. really dont help all that much either .

 If that is all true  then we ALL have a lot of nerve trying to separate ourselves from the hoardes of hi tech video hunt followers , with the self proclaimed title of Traditional Bowhunters or the Trad Gang .

[xtrema312]

I just keep agreeing with TJ's post one after the other.  All very well said.

[Jeff Strubberg]

Originally posted by jhg:
 

Originally posted by Jeff Strubberg:
Divided we fall only applies if we refuse to stand up for each other.  It has nothing to do with whether we tolerate the use of trail cameras or not.

I disagree.
 In this case trail cameras are part of a larger bellweather(sp?) of equipment that are forcing us, and everyone else who has an opinion on hunting, (as well as those who do not yet) to look anew at the merits of the sport.
 All I am advocating is we broaden our view when considering the ethical use of such devices to include the larger image of hunting. Again, I think they are linked. Thats all.

I will stand up for my brothers & sisters who hunt. But I do not want to see what we love eroded because in the end we could not agree on what is threatening it.

Joshua [/b]

As logn as you stand up for others when the call comes, then there is no "divided".  We have to accept that the fact that others don't agree with us does not make them the enemy.

[xtrema312]

I fail to see how hunting equipment, which helps hunters be more accurate, is seen as a bad thing.  I know that there is the whole thing about pushing range of shots and all, but most bow hunters I have ever know don’t try to shoot long distances.  They just want to shoot more accurate.  I would rather see a hunter with a compound, sites, rest, mechanical heads, range finder and all that make a good shot than a trad bow hunter missing and wounding because they insist on being trad, but can’t make the shot.

[Jeff Strubberg]

Here's a thought for the community...

If trail cameras are so effective, and they are selling like hotcakes...

why aren't deer kill rates going up?

[xtrema312]

Originally posted by Friend:

Hunting ethics are steadily and gradually subsiding at a pace that seems unnoticeable especially to the younger generations and even more so to those who are currently growing up where the decline is viewed as the norm. Where is the line? It is definitely not where it was established in the past. I have ascertained and stand firm that it is moving and in one direction.

I have a problem with this statement given what has happened in the not too distant past in hunting, which about wiped out many game animals in this country.  The Indians ran buffalo over cliffs.  Then there is what was done by many well know heroes of trad archers. I wouldn’t use many of the tactics they did or take the shots they did. As far as I can tell hunting ethics have improved for the most part over the last couple hundred years.  Other than caned hunts and some other obvious things like that, I don’t see the big slide in ethics.

[xtrema312]

Originally posted by Jeff Strubberg:
Here's a thought for the community...

If trail cameras are so effective, and they are selling like hotcakes...

why aren't deer kill rates going up?

Great point.  I just heard that we have even larger population of deer in some areas of our state and the DNR is trying to figure out ways to cut the numbers.  That is after the cross bow was legalized, which I didn’t like.  Compounds with all the bells and whistles, tree stands, cross bows, trail cameras, scent lock………………. and bow hunters still kill a drop in the bucket compared to gun hunters every year.  And they consist of mostly two or three day a year hunters with not much more tech that a gun, which is not an unethical way to kill a criter.

[snakebit40]

 

Very interesting read thanks!

[Biggie Hoffman]

Originally posted by Jeff Strubberg:
Here's a thought for the community...

If trail cameras are so effective, and they are selling like hotcakes...

why aren't deer kill rates going up?

Dang Jeff, don't you know that injecting a sensible statement like that is a thread killer?

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

Originally posted by Rick Perry:
sorry boys and girls but if we reach the conclusion that trail cams really dont help all that much , Not nearly as much as portable tree stands , then we must also conclude that 80% let off bows , lazer range finders , drop away rests , flip open broadheads  and etc,etc. really dont help all that much either .

 If that is all true  then we ALL have a lot of nerve trying to separate ourselves from the hoardes of hi tech video hunt followers , with the self proclaimed title of Traditional Bowhunters or the Trad Gang .

That, of course, assumes that everyone who hunts with a recurve or longbow does so to be a separatist, out of some sense of superiority. That may be the case for some, but please don't include me in that clique. I hunt how and with what I hunt for one main reason: I enjoy it. My hunting partners do the same. Some of them use longbows; others use decked out compounds, slug guns, and rifles.

As much as I respect everyone's opinions here (the civility and respect on this site never ceases to amaze me), I do find it ironic that people who are quick to decry another bowhunter's legal shortcut are equally quick to defend and rationalize their own. How a guy can sit in a portable treestand or popup blind and say someone's trail camera is unethical because it makes killing deer easier is a contradiction I don't understand.

[Bjorn]

Jason posted:
"As much as I respect everyone's opinions here (the civility and respect on this site never ceases to amaze me), I do find it ironic that people who are quick to decry another bowhunter's legal shortcut are equally quick to defend and rationalize their own. How a guy can sit in a portable treestand or popup blind and say someone's trail camera is unethical because it makes killing deer easier is a contradiction I don't understand."
Some would say it is because tree stands and blinds don't have a PCB!  

[awbowman]

I think it is no different than other items we buy, it's a tool and a very nice hobby also.

Having said that, it's no substitute to finding a hot oak tree.  JMO.

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

Bjorn,

Some folks do oppose them simply under the umbrella of electronics in bowhunting -- incrementalism even. I can certainly respect that opinion, and even share it to some degree. But when we start pointing out the gadgets and shortcuts others use to increase the ease with which they fill tags, I feel we should start by first examining ourselves.

[Shane H]

Really?????????  I'm going hunting.

[Butch L]

"Topic: Trail Cameras....ethical or not?"
According to ?? If they are legal then it's your choice, your morality, your own ethics. It's not for me to make your choice (nor would I want to), it's for each one of us to decide for ourselves. Isn't it wonderful we live in a country that allows us the opportunity to not only ask the question but also to actually make our own choice. Ethical or not, I know my answer and that's all that matters.

Butch L

[Kevin Dill]

Originally posted by Jason R. Wesbrock:
Bjorn,

Some folks do oppose them simply under the umbrella of electronics in bowhunting -- incrementalism even. I can certainly respect that opinion, and even share it to some degree. But when we start pointing out the gadgets and shortcuts others use to increase the ease with which they fill tags, I feel we should start by first examining ourselves.

I like this statement.

There will of course always be the "one more step" people who are just never going to tolerate anybody wanting to place a limit. The guys who created the remote control "hunt by internet" thing...you don't suppose they were upset by the outcry (from us) over THEIR ethics, do you? They say "all politics are personal"...and the same is true of ethics. Nobody wants to be told they can't do or use something because it's ethically wrong...even the "hunt by internet" guys felt this way. Still, someone else's ethics prevailed and were turned into legislation. I think we all agree it was for the best in that case.

If it's YOUR ethics that are under question or indictment, that's personal and sure to arouse ire. Nevertheless, at some point we are all bound to find ourselves at odds with the majority and their collective ethic. We don't agree with them, and that's just how it is. In my case it's more related to conservativism. I don't like seeing a form of remote electronic surveillance and communication used to assist us in hunting game...whether proven effective or not. Some do. We differ. That's all.

Speaking of incrementalism, I have to wonder about this likely scenario:

I know from experience that "my" buck sometimes passes point A on his way to point B. I've seen it enough to know it's a worthwhile odd to bet. So I set a real-time surveillance unit at point A, and a stand at point B. I'm hunting 200 yards away, when my iPhone sends me a picture: the big guy is at point A. I bail and run to my B stand and kill the buck...bow, gun, any legal weapon. I'm not even interested in opinions really, but this technology is in use today. It's going to be refined and improved as time passes. I can see the man sitting in his chair and hunting by remote surveillance...waiting for his chance.

[Stick n' String]

I absolutely love checking my trail cameras. I can tell you that they have made me far more selective for the simple reason that we have been able to see the quality of deer that actually inhabit our acreage. As a result, I am that much less likely to take a pot shot and the younger guys with serious potential. I don't care a whole lot about "trophy" deer in terms of inches of antler, but I love shooting old bucks.

By the way, we only have two cameras.