How much weight?

[backstrap_provider]

I shot an eight point on opening day and my arrow went thru the deer, but did not pass thru the deer ( I could see the broadness and the fletching on either side of the deer.)

I managed to recover the deer, but barely, because there was little blood.

This experience made me want to increase my FOC.

My question to you all is this:

What is enough bh or insert weight for whitetail? Or is there an ideal amount of weight?

I only had 125 up front when I shot my buck (Magnus stinger)  I was thinking of going with 175, but could be swayed to go heavier...I just want the most Lethal setup possible.

[CoilSpring]

Tell us a little about your set up
Bow wt at 28"
draw length
arrow spine/type
arrow length

If  5/16" carbon,maybe add 50 or 100 gr brass insert.   I like 125 stingers, but I have 100 grain brass inserts behind them in my 30" 35/55 GTs 45-50#s at 28" draw.

[backstrap_provider]

My setup:
Longbow
53@28"
29" draw
CX heritage 250
125 gr Magnus stingers cut to 30.5"

[backstrap_provider]

I have a feeling that if I add more weight to my setup I will be underpinned.

Was thinking of adding 100 grain inserts

[Looper]

You got two holes, right? One in and one out? That's  plenty of penetration. Not all shots will create good blood trails, especially one high in the lungs. And not every shot will completely exit an animal. That doesn't mean they're not lethal.    

It is a good idea, though, to maximize the momentum your bow can produce.  That might require a heavier arrow. Just adding point weight may or may not work. You're right, adding weight will change the spine of your arrow

How much do your current arrows weigh?

[Shawn Leonard]

Well I can tell you that you are overspined and an arrow that is not flying perfect penetrate way less than one with perfect flight. Not knowing your exact bow and string you are shooting I can still tell you that you could easily add a 100 grains more up front and get better flight and more penetration. Shawn

Originally posted by looper:
You got two holes, right? One in and one out? That's  plenty of penetration. Not all shots will create good blood trails, especially one high in the lungs. And not every shot will completely exit an animal. That doesn't mean they're not lethal.    

It is a good idea, though, to maximize the momentum your bow can produce.  That might require a heavier arrow. Just adding point weight may or may not work. You're right, adding weight will change the spine of your arrow

How much do your current arrows weigh?

Ditto on the first paragrapg above. If you can get your total arrow weight to 9-11gpp of draw weight you will be fine. I doubt you are that heavy now if you do not have any added weight to the carbon shaft (heavy insert or weight tube).

Bisch

Originally posted by Bisch:
 

Originally posted by looper:
You got two holes, right? One in and one out? That's  plenty of penetration. Not all shots will create good blood trails, especially one high in the lungs. And not every shot will completely exit an animal. That doesn't mean they're not lethal.    

It is a good idea, though, to maximize the momentum your bow can produce.  That might require a heavier arrow. Just adding point weight may or may not work. You're right, adding weight will change the spine of your arrow

How much do your current arrows weigh?

Ditto on the first paragrapg above. If you can get your total arrow weight to 9-11gpp of draw weight you will be fine. I doubt you are that heavy now if you do not have any added weight to the carbon shaft (heavy insert or weight tube). Weight tubes will not improve your FOC. Heavy brass inserts and heavier points will increase FOC. You will have to shorten your shaft or go to another if you add very much weight up front though.

Bisch [/b]

[CoilSpring]

Backstrap, what bow/string/silencer combo u using?
Shawn's the spine master...  

[SpencerL]

Originally posted by Shawn Leonard:
Well I can tell you that you are overspined and an arrow that is not flying perfect penetrate way less than one with perfect flight. Not knowing your exact bow and string you are shooting I can still tell you that you could easily add a 100 grains more up front and get better flight and more penetration. Shawn

100 Grain Brass Inserts are great!

[backstrap_provider]

Using a 12 strand b50 string
Cat string silencer.

Based on what you guys are saying... I could still keep the 250's and add 100 grains up front.

Btw thanks so much for the help... Trying to avoid spending more than I have to.

[backstrap_provider]

I think my total arrow weight is around 500 grains or so.

[stujay]

Why not pick up a 3 rivers field point test kit and see exactly how much weight you need to add up front. Costs very little and you can take the guess work out of it.

[mrjsl]

If you had cx 150's instead of 250's you'd be close, but maybe still overspined.

[GRINCH]

cx 150's with ioo grain bras inserts with 145 grain heads.

[SlowBowke]

While a great deal of guys and gals here are more in the know on set ups and habitually get MORE......Ive news.

Ive butchered over 3500 whitetail with about a quarter being bow kills. Plus about 50 of my own bowkills.

LESS THAN HALF of the butchered deer shot with (any kind) a bow had an exit hole. Not a joke.

Your set up is more than enough but advised well above to double check the arrow flight. FOC is also a good way to go from my experience, as is heavier arrows but not all LIKE an increased trajectory. Myself I dont notice anymore.

Id run some heavier heads with your current arrows just for giggles or just include a heavier steel adaptor, retuning the arrows of course to see if improvement was at hand.

Wont get into the FOC preference thing and HEAVY arrows. It's been beat to death. I like it, but not for everyone and I do shoot "antique" arrows for nostalgia sake and have faith in them too.  Just "pickier" on my shots. Ive some 1942 Pearson arrows and heads that need to draw blood once again in Ben's memory. So Im weird. Sue me LOL

I can tell you though that I now (with HEAVY arrows) get penetration through (last year) the shoulder blade , going through to break the off leg knuckle with a 650 grain (cedar) arrow and a pass through going another 20 yards out in a field (ground stand, grizzly head, carbon *flinch* arrow).

The first was with a bow weight of 60lbs and ...arghh. Not going there anymore. Old age hath STRUCK, yet it's a no brainer for ME, that such isnt required for my hunting. Second was with a 43 lb Super K.

Ive some tonkin cane(naturally full length taped by God's will) and tuffhead 225 grain single bevel heads that when shooting "I fear no whitetail bones"  (dont faint) and fly the best Ive ever shot.....at any range I can do so............and they are my "light" arrows at 645 grains. That's not a joke either.

The tonkins are bit "long" for my draw, Ive room to play yet so Ive set some aside for the incoming 300 ? plus grain Tuffheads from Joe and some also long Sweetlands (you dont want to know total arrow weight there. hehe)for the same.

Carbons will give a greater FOC range but I just cant step back from "naturally grown" shafts out of my 50s era bows that I've "regressed to". Just my mind frame is all.

Ok, I said I wasnt going to beat that to death and got off on a tangent. Sorry.

ANYWAY. To each their own. All of em tuned decent will "work" and as said, my 42 Pearsons at 545 grains (as they came, all original) will whack any whitetail in the world.....but will they be used on anything but broadside shots?

Not from my bows.

The Tuffhead is one of the few heads I can get over 20 percent FOC (enough IMO, for my use) with cedar or tonkin shafts (with carbons and weighted inserts? OMG, FOC is WAY up there) and if you've ever held one in your hand and/or sharpened one I cant imagine anyone not realizing the capabilities of such a head.

I'm more than A LITTLE excited!!!!!! about using them this fall! Ive seen what my arrow set up choices can do with a LESSER (IMO) and LIGHTER head.
 
I dont shoot "a lot" of draw weight anymore. My 50s Bear bows are mid 40s to 50lbs. Chosen for the bow style and age...draw weight wasnt a factor.

I've found out late in life that FOR ME, just MY opinion, that for my whitetail hunts and even if I went "bigger" should God allow that one more time.....it's the arrow weight, arrow flight, and broadhead that give ME the penetration I dreamed of for some 4 decades.

I KNOW it's sacriledge to say this and deletes what I ALSO preached for decades to others but NOW?  There isnt a bone on a whitetail that gives me pause.......as long as behind that is lungs/vitals.

Avoiding such was/still is preached but one only has to give it 30 seconds of thought as to WHY it was preached to realize what it would take to make that no longer the case and "null and void".  Enough penetration capabilities.

Sorry if that offends any. Forgive me if so, yet TIS TRUE. Been there.....DONE that.

"Waiting for the perfect shot" is, INDEED, still a time honored and respected thought process. I still do it with my "nostalgic" arrows. I have to and have no problem with that either.

What it ISNT, not anymore, is MANDATORY with proper arrow set up......at least has proven so FOR ME. Again, to each their own.

Kinda miss seeing the feathers sticking out of the deer as it runs a few yards though.                    

2 cents.

God Bless

[backstrap_provider]

Uhh Slowbowke...That Sir was one of the most Epic arrow setup preference essays I have ever had the priveledge of reading.  Thanks!
Jake

[Shawn Leonard]

You do not say if it is a hard r/d longbow or a mild or a Hill style, but those 250s are gonna be stiff unless it is a hard R/D bow and even at that I bet you need 275 grains or more up front for perfect flight. I would switch to Heritage 150s cut to 30"s with 225 up front but really need to know which bow and a b-50 string is not helping either. Shawn

[TRAD101]

I would say your arrow's are way to stiff, If you bareshaft them you will be surprised how off they are. I would say way more weight up front or drop to the 150's but no matter which way you go You should still bare shaft tune them.

[backstrap_provider]

I'm shooting a r/d longbow... not sure about the how hard of an r/d it is though