How heavy bows?

[WDELongbow]

I would not have a problem with someone, for the challenge, shooting a 35 lb sinew-backed self-bow (legal in my state) and shooting stone points (also legal); as long as they knew the limitations of the weapon and waited for a perfect, close, quartering away shot.  Any animal taken would be a trophy!  Just like taking a fish with light tackle.  There are some common elements with light tackle fishing (the why of it) and my example.  Lets face it, there is a risk of wounding an animal whatever weapon is chosen. If applied responsibly, this risk is minimized though.

[Stumpkiller]

This past week for the first time with my current bow I got drenched in the rain and took a shot with wet bow, limb covers, wool puffs, fletch, etc. and moving that extra water mass easily robbed me of 10 lbs or more in effective draw weight.  It was a lethal shot, but could easily have worked out poorly.

When you use the minimum you have no margin for error.  And in a hunting situation errors sometimes travel in packs.  I think it's still a good policy to shoot "as much bow" as you can use effectively

[JimB]

In those days,bows and arrows weren't as well tuned and some bows weren't as efficient.People then also commonly took shots at twice or more the distance than many today consider ethical.Many of those guys started with self bows and needed more weight with them.

I have a copy of Ye Olde Sylvan archer from 1943 and writers talk about the light bow heavy bow debate,the light arrow-heavy arrow controversy and arguments about broadhead design.There's nothing new about it.

Bowyers have learned to build bows more efficiently.Not that all are that different from some as far back as the late '50's or '60's but many are,especially many long bows.

Our knowledge of tuning arrows to bows has come a long ways in even the last few years and I'm pleased to see how many people are diligent about it.That may be the number one biggest reason that our setups are more efficient than those of decades ago.

I see more guys getting pass throughs on deer,elk and other animals,these days,than I ever did in the '60's.I think proper tuning is a big part of it.

Bow weight is only part of the equation and a widely varying part.The arrow is what transfers the bow's energy to the target and,depending on the type of arrow and how it is constructed,a lot of that energy can be lost or quite a bit can be harnessed,depending on the arrow.

I don't mean to say that heavy bows aren't good when shot by people who can shoot them well but bow weight isn't the only the only measure of performance.It isn't even a real good measure,just part of the picture.

I do believe a hunter should use the heaviest weight he can shoot well and that varies with each person.A lot can be done to increase the efficiency of a setup if one has to drop down in weight.The original poster says he knows he has been over-bowed and wants to know about setups in the 50+ lb range.

Bows in that weight range seem to be very efficient with decent weight arrows and a properly tuned setup.On this continent at least,a well setup mid 50's weight bow should get pass throughs most of the time on any game we have with the exception of large,shielded boar hogs.

[MikeW]

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[WDELongbow]

I did not realize this was such a touchy subject, particularly for the lighter tackle folks.

[Raging Water]

I love this site. With Tradgang you get so many varied opinions.

And.... some very strong opinions.

It is all constructive and has helped me become a better shooter. Plus, lots of entertainment value.


Matt

I have run into a lot more guys that were over bowed than under bowed. the only fellow that I could say was definitely under bowed could easily shoot my 72 pound longbow, but was hunting with a 42 Bear takedown. The rather large buck that he shot a Bear broadhead through with the bleeder blades, was not large enough to stop his arrow.  We can say that we need the power to blow through a shoulder bone, but in reality we don't have that much for the most part. so what is left, ribs, and even that makes a difference whether you are on the ground or in a tree shooting straight down.  The other nasty side of this, is that a very fast high 30s recurve or hybrid can shoot the same arrow faster than a Hill style longbow or a selfwood that can be 10 pounds stiffer.  If you are the light side of things and want to have some margin, get the fastest bow you can and leave the slower style bows for the big boys to play with. A strong shot out of a fast 40 pound bow is more deadly than a weak shot out of a heavier longbow and quite possibly more accurate as well.

[JimB]

Well,and any time similar discussions come up,people always reference whitetail deer.They are hunted in the highest numbers but there are something like 27 different species of native big game in North America.Not everyone hunts only whitetails and some that hunt whitetails plan to travel and hunt bigger stuff.I'm not a pig hunter but from what I've seen,a big old boar may be the toughest thing we have and aren't even on that list.

I agree with many being over bowed but there are some who can shoot the true heavy weights very well and I believe you can't have too much margin of error.Heavy isn't a bad thing for those that can shoot them well.The arrow is a very important part of the equation also.

[bucksbuouy]

As I sit here now, I have yet to meet a bow that I could not draw to my 29.5, regardless of weight, and I thank god for it every day because I went 10 years where I could not draw a 40# bow due to injuries (note- injurieSS.) I am currently playing with a 120# Martin custom longbow and let me tell you finding arrows of appropriate spine, making them, and tuning them has been more than I bargained for. I also have bows ranging from 40# and up. I suspect I could easily draw upwards of 170#. The secret is strong biceps and strong biceps as well as strong biceps.

That being said, the weight of the bow doesnt mean jack if you cant hit what your aiming at. Yeah, I can draw a sedona redwood if you can string it. But can I hit the ten ring at 20 yards with it? Na.

Now devils advocate- I have always said archery is a great sport that everyone can enjoy, but bow hunting is a sport for those of at least moderate physical ability. 40# at your draw minimum for deer IMHO. And you better be responsible. Not that bow weight is the only factor but I am SICK of finding some irresponsible archers skeletonized buck carcasses every spring. Thanks.

[Raging Water]

Jason,

"I can draw a Sedona Redwood, if you can string it"..... love it!!!

This week I am supposed to see my Jim Boswell, Rudderbows, English War Bow. It is 150# at 32". I draw 27 1/2" So, I am guessing around 135# at my draw length.

Now, if I "Sky Pull" for Flight, I might get 32" of draw. We will see. (BTW - I am not a Flight Archer, I prefer to shoot War Bows with my standard anchor)

More importantly I like this comment of yours...."I am SICK of finding some irresponsible archers skeletonized buck carcasses every spring"

Well said. Better to be accurate.

Matt

[David McLendon]

I used to shoot 83#, last year I had a non archery related neck injury at C5 which dropped my draw weight to 28#. Now I am back up to around 63# max but mostly 53-57# for hunting. I ain't as good as I once was....

Just to test myself if I have healed from my injuries, I loaded up my two 64 pound at 26" draw Schulz longbows. Put a tight nocked blunt on one so I could be sure of my draw and drew each side, left and right, to full draw ten times. i maybe could have gone up to my old twenty draws, but I am already pushing my luck with just ten reps each side. It is fun to shoot heavy stuff, but I am 60 years old and I don't feel the need to prove anything by it.  64 pounders, I have 3, will be my top end weights, but when I am freezing my tukus off when it is way below freezing, those little 52 pounders are easier to control. When I see someone with tight control of a lower weight bow and they start dreaming of shooting a heavy bow, I dig out the old heavy bow, just to prove to them that the wanting can be quite often better than the having. A fellow had a heavy Hill for sale awhile back. He really put on a sales pitch about how good it was and he was certain I was going to buy it. We went out to shoot. I never saw him draw it past 22" even once.  I shot it for him to show him what it looked like when it was drawn all the way back and told him he was not even getting it close.  He thought that I needed it, I told him no way. then I showed him the name on the bow and my drivers license. It was my old bow.  Heavy bows are great, if you can handle them, but like I said for many the wanting is often better than the having.

[awbowman]

Originally posted by Rob DiStefano:
seriously, who really cares what is my stick bow holding weight?  

in what way would it matter to anyone?    

imho, all that matters is the poundage you can personally command, not endure.  

as long as your bow's holding weight meets the hunt venue and hunted game's legal criteria, that's all that matters ... no?  am i missing something here?      

I think he just wanted to see what the trend is, ease up Mr. Rob.

[Jeff Strubberg]

Originally posted by WDELongbow:
Where did the heavy bows go?  Dan Quillian was a promoter of shooting heavier bows.  Of course I was a 20-something and quite impressionable when I would pick his brain at his shop.  He once told me that one day he quit listening to the "don't over-bow yourself" crowd and began defiantly shooting heavier bows, with a great deal of success.  He really had strong points for going as heavy as you comfortably handle.  And if you read Howard Hill's book he certainly leaned toward a very heavy bow by today's standards.  Things tend to go in cycles, and I think we may be in a light-bow phase in the world of trad archery.  Also, the core base of trad archers is getting older.  20 yrs ago you did not hear all these arguments for light bows around every corner.  Now a light bow is almost like a badge of honor for many trad archers.  I agree to each his own, but I prefer a heavier bow as long as I can shoot one.  At least 60+ lbs.  Just me and my opinion.  I realize it is relative though, based on the shooter.

The msot common bow weights sold in the 60s and 70s were 40 and 45 lbs.  There has never been a large scale move to heavier bows.  Some folks shoot them very well over time, most do not.  It doesn't seem to have anything to do with level of fitness, either.  I know a guy a few hours north of me that could probably bench press a Volkswagen on a bet, but he tore his shoulder apart shooting 90+ pound selfbows for years.

I started out in the low 70 pound range.  20 years later I'm in the upper 50s and my arrows are every bit as lethal as they were back then.  The difference is I don't need the tylenol or ice packs after a shooting session anymore.

[bornagainbowhunter]

Ahhh, back to the topic, I shoot a 53#, 67# and have a 66# on order.  

I draw 29" and my bow weights are at 28".  Shoot what you like, but be responsible.

God Bless,
Nathan

[WDELongbow]

I think Mr. Quillian's point was that during the 60's and 70's most bows were on the light side (the old "don't overbow yourself" mantra, and "a 45 lb bow will shoot through any N. American game animal", etc., etc., etc.).  He was sort of a rebel amongst his peers when he started shooting heavier bows back then.  I am pretty sure the argument for shooting a heavier bow, if you could shoot it accurately, was that it had some clear advantages for hunting.  He thought it a more effective hunting weapon, and shot a fairly heavy bow fairly late in life (80-90# or similar at through his 60's I believe).  Also, I suspect he simply enjoyed shooting a heavier bow as well.  Also, it does have a level of fitness involved.  Through practice,  you build your muscles to allow you to shoot the heavier draw weight.  Like any sport, most people can increase strength significantly (20-25% within a few weeks actually) with exercise and training.  So you can jump from say 50 lbs to 60+ lbs in strength capability, allowing you go go heavier.  The equipment you shoot is not the entirety of the system that can be improved upon.  The exercise could be weights or just shooting the heavy bow itself.  

Raging Water, or anyone else, I would appreciate any info you could provide on this training aspect?

[swampdrummer]

I personally saw the benefits of a lower weight bow in a Rod Jenkins clinic last fall. Most all of us were shooting 50-65# bows going into the clinic and most all of us were NOT coming to full expansion and it was evident that our form suffered. Dropping down 10#, and sometimes 20# allowed most all of us to achieve perfect, or near perfect form. I personally dropped from a 53# @ 28 to a 43@28, but now I'm drawing closer to 30" with proper expansion and back tension.
I've shot 2 deer and probably a half dozen hogs up to 120# since that clinic and guess what. The arrows were stuck in the dirt on the other side in all but 1 pig.He was too short and the arrow hit the dirt before passing all the way thru. Thats enough proof for me!

[SERGIO VENNERI]

64 years old=64#'s

[Rob DiStefano]

back in the mid 50's to mid 60's, i don't remember any bowhunter using more than a 50# recurve for whitetail, and most were lot's less in holding weight.  how this translated into a macho thing in the 90's and beyond is well past my understanding.

i see far too many trad archers struggling with a bow weight that's far beyond their current abilities.  but somehow, they think all is just fine and dandy.  things look okay 'til they come close to anchor and then either they dump the arrow or hold and shake a bit but never achieve full draw, never do the push/pull, never get "over the arrow", and invariably the arrow flies off and away to their bowarm side.  they just don't spend the time to develop proper bow muscles.  they'd be far better off shooting in the low forties rather than the high fifties - or more!

however, there ARE trad archers who can EASILY command 65-70# bows, and they just need to keep on keepin' on.  but those others who can't pull that kinda weight correctly need to back down for theirs and their hunted game's sake.  just sayin' it like it is.  i was once in that overbowed camp and i got a hefty dose of trad bow religion ...

[Widow's Son]

46# at 28" Black Widow MAII.  I had rotator cuff surgery 6 years ago and am glad I have this bow.