Is 7.6 gpp too light?

[Mr.Magoo]

I'm guessing your arrows are full length (or close to it).  I shoot 35/55's out of bows of similar weight; I have a 29" draw and with the arrows cut to 29.5 I can load 250 to 285 on front depending on the bow.

410gr. is too light on a hunting arrow for me.  Cut your arrows a bit (if you can) and you can jack up the point weight.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Mr.Magoo:
... 410gr. is too light on a hunting arrow for me.  Cut your arrows a bit (if you can) and you can jack up the point weight.

or, imho, better yet add more up-front weight via a brass insert and/or a heavier steel adapter.  that puts the arrow weight where it will do the most good.

i'm not at all fond of using arrows that are far longer than they need be.  i'd rather find the right shaft spine at my preferred arrow length (29.5") and then work out the arrow's mass weight via point weights.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Shooting lighter weight arrows than the bowyer recommends isn't a good choice. it's really hard on your bow. as you go up in arrow weight more of the bows stored energy goes into the arrow shaft instead of back into the limbs.

often times you'll find you are getting better all around performance in hunting conditions out of your bow with a bit heavier arrow..... I'm not talking just arrow flight or speed....

[hitman]

The one problem I might see would be too light for the stress on bow.

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

Ultimately, I would go with the bowyer's suggestion regarding arrow weight. Aside from that purpose, grains per pound is completely irrelevant to me. People at times get hung up on that ratio, which is how we end up with discussions about how a 500-grain arrow is lethal out of a 50# bow (10 gpp) but somehow is questionable out of a 60# bow (8 gpp). It defies logic, and yet we hear it all the time.

With respect to your setup, a 410-grain arrow flying well out of a 54# bow is hardly on the lower end for whitetails. If the bowyers says the bow will handle it, I wouldn't give it a second thought.

[Friend]

The 10 gpp so called guideline, in my opinion, for hunting deer sized and smaller game is almost guaranteed to come up in some fashion or referral in these types of threads. There is little to no basis for applying it so general across the wide hunting draw wt ranges. The 10 gpp guide line does have its general application for the bow itself’s and the user ‘s  protection and that too may be design dependent.

Possibly 90% of these quite frequent inquiries for ‘Do I have enough?’ ,  could be easily resolved  by adopting and establishing a new guideline similar to:  
For deer sized animals:
40…………15 gpp……….600 g
45…………13 gpp……….585 g
50…………11 gpp……….550 g
55#’s…….10gpp………..550 g
60#’s……..9+ gpp……...540+
65#’s……..+9 gpp……….585+

While this guideline is not near absolute,  the adoption  of a similar guide line would benefit the users, the bow and especially the game we pursue. No need to defend your position, if you choose otherwise since the final arrow wt is in part your personal choice. A new proposed guideline should position us well w/I  an assuring safe zone.

We have the power and right to set a new constructive precedent.

[Plumber]

go heavey. 500 plus. dam the speed

[Bobaru]

I'd check with Bob Lee to see what the warrenty is, if that means anything to you.

You say it shoots good, then it shoots good.  

7.6 gpp is perfectly acceptable.  

I think all the heavy arrow folks are a sub-set of archery.  I've tried to find what their data points are in their experiments to support their theories of heavy arrows, but never get any.

So, if it shoots good for you, then it's good.  

I'd hunt with a 7.6 gpp arrow for sure, if it's well tuned to my bow and quiet.  

Good luck.  And trust your own experiments and judgment.

[SteveB]

If its ok with Mr Lee, you are fine hunting deer.

[Javi]

Originally posted by Bobaru:
I'd check with Bob Lee to see what the warrenty is, if that means anything to you.

You say it shoots good, then it shoots good.  

7.6 gpp is perfectly acceptable.  

I think all the heavy arrow folks are a sub-set of archery.  I've tried to find what their data points are in their experiments to support their theories of heavy arrows, but never get any.

So, if it shoots good for you, then it's good.  

I'd hunt with a 7.6 gpp arrow for sure, if it's well tuned to my bow and quiet.  

Good luck.  And trust your own experiments and judgment.

That's ok... light arrow folks is another subset altogether..    

[njloco]

I'm really glad he brought this up because I checked my arrow weights and had to put in 100 gr. brass inserts, I was way off and that was with a carbon shaft with aluminum footings.

They were great for 3-D and stumping but too light for hunting.

[Swamp Yankee]

Should I really be concerned about damaging my bow or penetration on deer? [/QB]

Yes and probably; IMHO

[Bobaru]

Originally posted by Kenny New:
The arrow and point combination that I am getting the best flight and grouping with is a little lighter than most often recommended.
Should I really be concerned about damaging my bow or penetration on deer?

Chrono your arrows.  From that you can determine the percentage loss of energy by using one arrow versus another arrow. That loss of energy went into the bow.  

My guess is that the loss of energy will be so minimal as to be unimportant, and will not cause your bow to destroy itself.  But, check for yourself.

Out of one of my bows, I've been shooting 7 gpp for years.  I shoot well in excess of 10,000 arrows per year.  The arrows shoot quietly, and the bow is just fine.

By the way, people seem to think that how many years one's been shooting is important the weight of their opinion.  I disagree.  I believe that the weight of one's opinion is whether another can get use of it, or reproduce someone else's results.  But, if years shooting is important, I'm at 46.

[Kenny New]

Sorry I haven't chimed in here today but, I have been at the hospital all day with my mother.

I appreciate all the response from everyone. Some very good points made.

I think however, that some of you misunderstand my motives. I am not trying to push the limits on purpose with this setup for speed. I have tried a few arrow and point cominations, but just haven't found anything yet that shoots this well.

I am sure I can eventually find another heavier arrow that will shoot well. However, I have only used a few other shaft sizes that I currently have on hand(GT 5575, CE Heritage 250 and Easton 2020).

I am actually not too concerned about penetration on deer. My 16 yr old son uses this same arrow at the same length but with only 25 more grains up front out of a 45 lb Bob Lee takedown. He gets complete pass through penetration on all the deer he has shot. So with a well placed shot I don't think penetration would be an issue after all.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Well if that's the case Kenny, I'd order some brass inserts for the heritage 250's.

 That's the same arrow i set up for my 57 pound bow this fall and i love those shafts. i ended up with 575 grains with a 65 grains insert.

[Bobaru]

Kenny New:  

This is your original post:
(1) " I am getting the best flight and grouping"
and
(2) "Should I really be concerned about damaging my bow or penetration on deer?"

You've already answered penetration - you have correctly found that penetration is fine with that arrow set up.  I wouldn't be surprised.

I wouldn't be worried about damaging the bow.  But, I'm not you.  That's your decision.  I can say that there are a lot of people who worry about damaging a bow at 7.6 gpp.  Ask them where they got their data points.  I'll bet they don't have data points.  They have opinions.  That fine, but opinions are very limited, mine included.  

In my opinion, your bow will shoot just fine with 7.6 gpp arrows.  I've shot plenty of arrow with more and plenty with less weight.

But, if you're concerned, increase your gpp. Anyway, if you're worried about the risk, remember that all life is risky, then you croak.  Hopefully, you don't croak falling out of your treestand, 'cause that's more risky than damaging your bow.

Good luck.

[Javi]

Curious how some folks keep referencing DATA POINTS yet they haven't offered up any themselves..    

My reasoning for shooting an arrow in the ten to twelve grain per pound range is less vibration (which translates into a quieter bow), better flight in windy conditions and more momentum down range; all of these things have been proven by me, to me over a good many years of flinging arrows at both targets and at game.

[Jeff Strubberg]

Originally posted by Bobaru:
I'd check with Bob Lee to see what the warrenty is, if that means anything to you.

You say it shoots good, then it shoots good.  

7.6 gpp is perfectly acceptable.  

I think all the heavy arrow folks are a sub-set of archery.  I've tried to find what their data points are in their experiments to support their theories of heavy arrows, but never get any.

So, if it shoots good for you, then it's good.  

I'd hunt with a 7.6 gpp arrow for sure, if it's well tuned to my bow and quiet.  

Good luck.  And trust your own experiments and judgment.

Then you didn't look very far.

Gpp is just a guideline.  I think it becomes less valuable the lighter bow you shoot.  An archer with a 40lb bow cannot afford to givbe away penetration like an archer with a 70lb bow can.

IMHO, 410 grains is very light for anything other than small deer.  Add a weight tube.  You won't lose much in teh way of tuning and you will have a much better performing bow/arrow combination.

[Bobaru]

jeff Strubberg wrote:  "... An archer with a 40lb bow cannot afford to givbe away penetration like an archer with a 70lb bow can."

You assume there's a correlation between arrow weight and penetration.  I've run a number of tests and cannot find a correlation that has statistical significance.  Have you?

[LookMomNoSights]

YES