the "D" shape R/D longbow appreciation thread!

[Rob DiStefano]

it's *almost* splitting hairs, but having owned a pair of bear montana's, if you look closely at the tips, they're ever so slightly reflexed - not a true "mild r/d classic D longbow", which has no reflex or flat spots at the tips, just a continuation of the limb curve, as you would find with a howard hill longbow.  the mild r/d classic "D" longbow is about the unbraced look of a hybrid, and the braced look of a hill-style.

There are no pics of game taken with the bend to a 'D' r/d bows on this. I went through my pics and do have on single picture on any digital format of game taken with the Robertsons, all film pictures or no pictures at all. Perhpas it is time for some game shots with the mild r/d bows. If I shoot something today, I must remember to get a picture.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by pavan:
There are no pics of game taken with the bend to a 'D' r/d bows on this. I went through my pics and do have on single picture on any digital format of game taken with the Robertsons, all film pictures or no pictures at all. Perhpas it is time for some game shots with the mild r/d bows. If I shoot something today, I must remember to get a picture.

TONS of game killed with mild r/d longbows, but a few images shown  HERE

Thanks Rob, I also see that should put my glasses on before I tyepe.

[mtnwalker]

you know never really noticed the slightness of the reflex of the montana longbow, but after unstringing the bow seems that dang there it is, sorry rob bow doesn't belong here

[LAMADMAN]

Originally posted by Rob DiStefano:
 

Originally posted by LAMADMAN:

 [/b]

that's a NOT a "D" shaped longbow!  this thread is not about THAT kinda bow - why would post about that bow??? [/QB]

Just trying to add something to the thread Rob. Guess I lost sight of the original post after reviewing 20 pages,my bad.

Are thier any agressive hybrids that can brace to a D or is it just not possible?

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by LAMADMAN:
Are thier any agressive hybrids that can brace to a D or is it just not possible?

not that i know of.  when there's lots of snake to the limbs, the results are gonna be some amount of reflex or flat spot showing at the tips.  it is what it is.  

for the most part, there are marked differences in how each style of longbow (aggressive hybrid, mild r/d hybrid, true hill style) shoots and feels.  

there is no doubt to me that aggressive hybrids are just a few degrees away from the feel and performance of a recurve.  some can even match and/or exceed what a good recurve can accomplish.  as such, they typically will lack some measure of the stability that is the trademark of hill style longbows.  

on the other end of the spectrum is the hill style longbow that *might* have some offset to the limbs, either forward set ("reflex") or belly set ("string follow").  these bows are super stable and -imho- work best at the higher draw/holding weights.  lots of wonderful olde tyme tradition in these machines ...  

smack in the middle are the mild r/d hybrids that have some obvious snake to the *unbraced* limbs, but always brace to a smooth curve that's hard to tell apart from a braced true hill style longbow.  you get added performance from this kinda longbow, plus a goodly measure of stability - as compared to a good hill style longbow.

special classic mild r/d "D" longbows like the mohawk "sparrowhawk" model have deeper (thicker) and narrower (width) limbs that get them even closer to the hill style limb planform.
 
no matter what, they're all good - pick out one (or more!) that make ya happiest to go hunting!         :D

[LAMADMAN]

Thanks Rob. Being somewhat new to this game I only have two longbows.A hill style made by floyd oaks, his tunica longbow, and my agressive acadian woods. I sure like the looks or your thundersticks, maybe i need to get one to make an acurate comparison.LOL

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by LAMADMAN:
Thanks Rob. Being somewhat new to this game I only have two longbows.A hill style made by floyd oaks, his tunica longbow, and my agressive acadian woods. I sure like the looks or your thundersticks, maybe i need to get one to make an acurate comparison.LOL

my moab is a Very Fast aggressive hybrid longbow, but none of the thundersticks brace to a "D".  there aren't a lot of mild r/d "D" longbows to be found, but there are at least 3 or 4 bowyers i know of that do offer them.

Rob, in reference to the last page, to me a really nicely balanced r/d bow like my Robertsons and a couple of others that I have shot seem to be just as forgiving as a lot of Hill style bows and more forgiving than a number of the Hill style bows that I have shot.  It may be easier to get a string follow Hill style to shoot with forgiveness and stability, but I think getting a tiller job to produce perfect limb timing and having the bow setup as perfectly as possible for the shooter makes enough of a difference that it is possible to get better results with the mild r/d bows, plus getting the inherent advantages of the r/d bow.  As an example, I had a Hill style bow that even for me, I had to greatly exaggerate the heeling of the grip to get the bow to shoot cleanly, changing the nocking point did not matter. To me, that was not a forgiving string follow bow. With the r/d bows that I have, I quite often consider just which bowhand position would be best with them, the problem is most bowhand positions seem to work just fine with them and only require a slight tweaking of the knock height to get good results. I have not noticed a difference in release sensitivity with my bows and to be dead honest my old Stotler seemed have more release error forgiveness of any bow that I have ever shot. I am a Hill style bow fanatic, but it is hard to remain prejudiced against all other shaped bows when honestly considering the results I get with the r/d bows that I have.

[KYArcher]

Here is one of my D-Shaped longbows, and my 2012 buck I harvested with it. Robertson Primal Styk 64" 50# @28"....KYArcher
 


 

[KYArcher]

Here is a Sweet one! Abbott 66" 45# @28" Coco riser with Yew limbs. Smooth and Sweet!....KYArcher


 

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by pavan:
Rob, in reference to the last page, to me a really nicely balanced r/d bow like my Robertsons and a couple of others that I have shot seem to be just as forgiving as a lot of Hill style bows and more forgiving than a number of the Hill style bows that I have shot.  It may be easier to get a string follow Hill style to shoot with forgiveness and stability, but I think getting a tiller job to produce perfect limb timing and having the bow setup as perfectly as possible for the shooter makes enough of a difference that it is possible to get better results with the mild r/d bows, plus getting the inherent advantages of the r/d bow.  As an example, I had a Hill style bow that even for me, I had to greatly exaggerate the heeling of the grip to get the bow to shoot cleanly, changing the nocking point did not matter. To me, that was not a forgiving string follow bow. With the r/d bows that I have, I quite often consider just which bowhand position would be best with them, the problem is most bowhand positions seem to work just fine with them and only require a slight tweaking of the knock height to get good results. I have not noticed a difference in release sensitivity with my bows and to be dead honest my old Stotler seemed have more release error forgiveness of any bow that I have ever shot. I am a Hill style bow fanatic, but it is hard to remain prejudiced against all other shaped bows when honestly considering the results I get with the r/d bows that I have.

nothing is etched in titanium and some unique bow differences can be found, but the very very large part, hill style bows have an inherent stability not found in r/d longbows.  as with any trad bow style, all bets will be off if you don't have the strength to master the holding weight - i will emphasize "MASTER", as i've witnessed too many archers who need to drastically rethink their bow's holding weight and stop the silly short drawing.

as to how one's bow hand addresses the bow handle, that's a very Very personal thing and i will say for the umpteenth time that there are no rules in this matter at all.  i don't give a rat's pitoot how howard shot or you you shoot or how anyone else shoots.  some of the posts about hill longbows get holier-than-thou about "the proper way to hold a hill longbow".  total rubbish.  it doesn't take too much sincere dedication to the trad bow to figure out what does and what does not work.  each of us needs to find that out for ourselves.  

NOW, not being overbowed is clearly a major priority should probably Rule Number One in all of trad archery/bowhunting.  it's both amusing and sad to see a bowhunter do some pre-hunt practice with a 67# longbow, and short draw to 26.5" with his 30" arrow. that's just wrong on too many levels, and hopefully he'll get the message after we chat about shooting and bows ...

[Brianlocal3]

Great job ky archer

I would agree, Rob, back in the day most of the Hill longbow shooters were overbowed. About the short draw thing. I have short arms and I am very strong, I draw 26" left hand, it makes no difference if it is a 44 pound recurve or my 77 pound string follow. If I stretch it past that, I can no longer turn my head far enough to get an eye over the arrow and I get left/right errors. Right handed I draw a bit further and my bow arm is still bent. If I shoot with a straight bow arm I lose that little timing thing that helps me hit pheasants. What does this have to do with 62" and 64" r/d bows? With that short draw I get more arrow speed than some Hill style shooters that are shooting heavier bows with longer draws. If one has a naturally short draw, like me, the R/D bow is a good compromise and one can still shoot with a fluid Hill like form. You may disagree with shooting a longbow or an R/D with a shorter draw than one would shoot with a recurve, but it is part of the fluid control with that style of form, if one chooses to follow that path.
   Nice buck Scot. I let one about that size walk by this year, but the one that was behind him was a real live Iowa monster. The old bird in the hand thing really made sense for awhile after the big one turned around and trotted back the way he came. I am pretty sure my 51@26" Robertson would have done the trick for either one. Next time I am shooting the close one no matter what.

[Brianlocal3]

[ there aren't a lot of mild r/d "D" longbows to be found, but there are at least 3 or 4 bowyers i know of that do offer them. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Rob,
I am VERY interested in what bows are being made now that are being built to the continuous curve that you know of. Thank you

[Red Beastmaster]

KY Archer,

Your Abbott is the exact thing I've been dreaming of ordering someday! I had a 66", coco/yew, but in a 53#. I traded it for an Abbott 62" coco/curly maple 40# @ 27". Nice bow but I miss the old one.

I had a 60# coco/osage 68" at one time. Very nice bow as well. One thing you can count on with Abbott's is that they all shoot as nice as they look.

[Knawbone]

My smoothest,best casting bow for the pounds is my mild R/D Great Northern Bushbow. Sorry no pics.Not as D shaped as my Hills, but it is D shaped for sure.

[Razorbak]

21st century edge if I remember was a r/d but when strung it came to a D shape..dont have my bow anymore..maybe Rob could elaberate as I believ he had one awhile back

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by LAMADMAN:
... Are thier any agressive hybrids that can brace to a D or is it just not possible?

greg, thinking on this a LOT more, one significant bow DOES come to mind - the 21st century "edge"!

i've had three built for me by jim ploen.  this longbow has *significant* aggressive limb snake and it braces to an arguable "D" shape.  i say "arguable" because it was used primarily at ifaa target events that only allowed "D" shaped longbows and the edge did have a very very tiny flat spot near the limb tips that was hard to detect.  

long story short, in the hands of larry yien it won at least a few world ifaa champs, flat spot or not.  comparing the edge to any hill style long bow was like comparing a pair of volkswagon beetles, only one had a porsche engine.    :D  

however, imo, the down side to the edge, and similar subsequent bows like the acs (not sure about the newer acs bows, though), is the limb "wobble and collapse" - when braced, you could grab a limb by the limb tip area and string, and get that limb to collapse almost flat.  this only hurt the way the bow looked, not shot.