the "D" shape R/D longbow appreciation thread!

[Bob B.]

I love my Abbott bow, cocobollo riser, all yew limbs - sweet to look at, sweeter to shoot.  I have some elbow issues, so she is 42 pounds @28.  I draw 30 inches.  Still, lower poundage and I get decent performance with 590 grain arrows.  the bow is 66 inches long.  It is awesome!  My Deathwish longobw is a super D bow as well.  I am a longbow junkie and D bows are my drug of choice.  I have a mohawk my son uses and a bit of a mix between hybrid and R/D is a two tracks -  real sweet shooter.

I love my hill as well, but my mild R/D bows will always be where my heart is.

Bob.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by ken denton:
 Morrision Dakota 44# and 62'

ken, totally NOT a mild r/d "D" longbow!  look at all that flip at the tips!!  yikes!!!

ken that looks more like a hybrid, what bothers me about hybrids like, my wife prefers, is that they feel longer than they are, they shoot faster than one would think, and they fit into tighter quarters.
Question: besides length and limb loaded energy increases as with hybrids and R/D, what are the  advantages or disadvantages of these bows compared to recurves and Hill style longbows. For myself, I have two Robertsons one Pearce point and one myrtle riser with book matched myrtle veneers, I like the speed for the draw weight, I cannot tell whether they are more or less forgiving than my own Hill style longbows. What are your observations?

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by pavan:
ken that looks more like a hybrid, what bothers me about hybrids like, my wife prefers, is that they feel longer than they are, they shoot faster than one would think, and they fit into tighter quarters.
Question: besides length and limb loaded energy increases as with hybrids and R/D, what are the  advantages or disadvantages of these bows compared to recurves and Hill style longbows. For myself, I have two Robertsons one Pearce point and one myrtle riser with book matched myrtle veneers, I like the speed for the draw weight, I cannot tell whether they are more or less forgiving than my own Hill style longbows. What are your observations?

dunno if you question was directed specifically to ken, or open to others replying, so respectfully here are my observations ...

yes, ken's longbow is an aggressive r/d and not a mild r/d "D".

i consider all r/d longbows to be "hybrids" and fit in somewhere between a hill style longbow and a true recurve.  some will argue that any aggressive r/d longbow IS a recurve.  imo, if only the string loops touch the limb nocks, it's a longbow.  

once you add reflex and deflex to a longbow's planform, you increase it's efficiency and speed over most any longbow that has just reflex ("back set"), or is straight limbed, or has follow-through ("belly set").  r/d longbows allow for shorter length bows than hill style longbows, for the same comparable draw length.  

for example, as a good guideline, you will probably want a 70" hill longbow for a 29" draw length, 66" for a mild r/d "D" longbow, and 62" for an aggressive r/d longbow.  there are exceptions, but the preceding is a good for starters.

to me, the real question is longbow "stability" and "pointability", which is the forte of the hill style longbow.  with stability in mind, imo mild r/d "D" longbows have somewhat less than hill style longbows and somewhat more than aggressive r/d longbows.

shorter limbed stick bows can be, might be, usually have the potential for more speed, too.

[NormanDale33]

I just got a mohawk...and it is so nice to shoot. Smooth as butter and no stacking to over 31". It is 48# @ 28. It has cocobolo with tonkin cane limbs.

Vince sure makes a very nice bow, and I can see a couple more in my future.

Is my longer draw length too long for a 64" bow? If it is I better start looking far a 66" mohawk    I don't notice any stacking, but I definitely don't want to hurt the bow.

[Rick Butler]

Here's my "Pure Michigan" Longwalker.  Michigan Osage and Maple. It's become my go to bow.
 

Here's my son Sean shooting his Longwalker.
 

[AdAstraAiroh]

It certainly seems that there is a great deal of variation in what many individuals feel is "D shaped" when strung.  Here is the IFAA definition (rule) for determination of a longbow, as they require a complete D shape for the full length of the limb when braced.
 
"  7. Longbow - (L.B.)

a. A one piece straight ended bow of any material, which when strung displays one continued unidirectional curve, which is measured as follows:

When the strung bow is placed with the bowstring in a vertical position, the angle as measured between the tangent of any point on the limb and an imaginary horizontal line must always decrease as this point is moved further away from the bow grip.

Where there is any doubt as to the continuing curve of the limb then a string-line laid from the end of the riser fade out to the commencement of the tip overlays (or if there are no overlays then the point at which the bow string is held in the nock groove) on the back of the strung bow shall show no gaps between the string line and the bow limb"

Mark

[Larry m]

Since were talking Longbows here thought I would post the change from left to right. Hybrid Black Widow, Hornes Traditionalists, Howard Hill, Osage Flat Bow, and English Longbow. The only true D bows here to my undersdtanding are the Hill, Osage and English. The Hornes even with the "R/D" forms a nice D when strung. All are nice shooting bows. Surprisingly the Howard Hill when shot with barrell tapered cedars is one of the better shooters!!        

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by AdAstraAiroh:
It certainly seems that there is a great deal of variation in what many individuals feel is "D shaped" when strung.  Here is the IFAA definition (rule) for determination of a longbow, as they require a complete D shape for the full length of the limb when braced.
 
"  7. Longbow - (L.B.)

a. A one piece straight ended bow of any material, which when strung displays one continued unidirectional curve, which is measured as follows:

When the strung bow is placed with the bowstring in a vertical position, the angle as measured between the tangent of any point on the limb and an imaginary horizontal line must always decrease as this point is moved further away from the bow grip.

Where there is any doubt as to the continuing curve of the limb then a string-line laid from the end of the riser fade out to the commencement of the tip overlays (or if there are no overlays then the point at which the bow string is held in the nock groove) on the back of the strung bow shall show no gaps between the string line and the bow limb"

Mark

NO, i don't see that at all ... i see a few folks that don't understand what is and what isn't a mild r/d "D" longbow, - but just a few and NOT "many individuals".

ah yes, the infamous ifaa and their twisted view on what bows to allow in their "classic longbow" tournaments.  i pay NO ATTENTION to the ifaa, they have made a travesty of their classic longbow competition bow rules.  their definition of a "classic longbow" is essentially an ELB "D" or AFL "D" (such as a howard hill).  that would be well and good if they stuck to their guns and looked at competitors bows both braced AND unbraced.  they don't.  that's dumb.  anyone with a mild r/d "D" longbow can shoot with it at an ifaa event and compete along with elb's and hill's.  go figure.  

i spent a few months of phone calls and emails with ifaa officials about their ridiculous rules years ago.  dealing with with straight edges and geometric formulas in testing what bows are legal and what aren't, WITHOUT taking into account the bow's unbraced limb shape, and realizing that any true classic longbow is NOT competing on the same level as an r/d longbow, is pure silliness.

what is a mild r/d "D" longbow??? - just look at a braced bow's limbs - your EYES are your best measuring tool and you will know darn quick if what you see is a "D" braced limb shape or not.  yer looking for a continuous curve of the limbs, with absolutely NO RECURVE FLIP at the tip areas ... and no flat spots either.      

there ARE a few mild r/d longbows that ALMOST sorta go flat at the tips and aren't true "D" shape.  big deal.  this isn't a contest.  and thankfully no one needs the ifaa police to judge what ya got.  call it a mild r/d "D" longbow and just enjoy.  

the bottom line name to this longbow game is still, will always be ... TRAD BOWHUNTING!  

[Sant-Ravenhill]

Larry m,

Thanks for posting the series of pictures. A picture truly is worth a thousand words.

Again, thanks!

[WESTBROOK]

She aint real Purty but she's a heckuva shooter, My ol'Robertson Mystical.
 

All Red Elm
 

The best grip I ever had a hold of
 

I would like to get this one back if I could find her, Robertson Vision 60 @ 29"
 
 
 

[JamesKerr]

[pdk25]

As long as we are going to be picky, just looking at your limb profile and it looks like you should call it reflex-deflex-reflex by your criteria.


Oops. Looks like someone beat me to it.

[JamesKerr]

Originally posted by Bowjunkie:
How 'bout a peek beyond the realm of glass bows?

Here's Rose, a bamboo backed yew d/r I made. Talk about light n lively! This bow is feather lite in the hand, 70# @ 28", and casts arrows faster and farther than any of my other glass bows or bamboo backed bows of other woods, all with identical profiles and draw weights. With yew and bamboo, there's just less dead weight.

     

 

   

Can I have one?  

[kestimator]

Great old photo ken denton!!  I'm a Ben Pearson fan.  I've owned several old fiberglass take-down LBs.  I've still got one old T/D recurve.  Thanks for sharing!

[ken denton]

Liberty Chief or Elite, I do not remember. Great R/D longbow! Ken

[Looper]

Ken, you're going to cause Rob to have a aneurysm.

[awbowman]

Ken, WOOOOW!!!!!!!!!!

[Ben Maher]

Ken,
That is a Chief I reckon ...

[Aussie Stickbow Hunter]

Originally posted by pdk25:
As long as we are going to be picky, just looking at your limb profile and it looks like you should call it reflex-deflex-reflex by your criteria.


Oops. Looks like someone beat me to it.

pdk & JamesKerr,

You are correct in what you say however those bows have just been known as being reflex/deflex in design. The static recurved tips of this type of recurve are needed for it to function properly with relation to string angle etc.

This little nit pick doesn't change the validity of what I have said in my previous posts however.      

Jeff