HITMAN LONGBOWS PASS AROUND

[sticksnstones]

Alright I'm drinking my coffee and getting my camera ready for my review, but I thought I'd do a quick catchup from what other people said about the Hitman at the shoot yesterday. Dave, I don't know if I'll be using "actionwood" and "phelonic" in overly broad terms here, but I hope everyone knows what I'm talking about.

Limbs: First and foremost, every single discussion was started by someone walking up to look at the limbs. They were closely inspected by several archers and the comments were 100% positive. OK,       we all know how pretty these are.

Riser: After the limbs, people's eyes seemed to move to the riser. Two guys talked about liking the gray actionwood and black phelonic accents, that's the good news. As for the natural color of the actionwood making up most of the riser, all those comments were neutral to negative. Seems like everyone thought the riser was too plain to go with the limbs, and one guy just hates any kind of actionwood. I think had I shown up with the one on the    In Stock  page with the limbs/riser matching woods and grains the riser would have been better received for aesthetics.  

Limb tips: I was surprised most guys didn't look more closely at these, but there were three exceptions. The first guy was your average shooter, he really liked the accent lines pulling the riser/footing together. The second guy is a lifetime archer and collector of many fine custom bows, he said they were "really nice." Having seen the fine bows in his collection, I'd take that as a big compliment. The last guy is interesting as he is an amateur bowyer, he closely scrutinized the tips for a minute or so front and back then said "that's good work" then said something about "I really need to buy a new ??? for my shop." and handed it the bow back to me. I think that means he really liked them.

Finally the most shocking thing to me, not a single person asked to shoot it. Maybe nobody wanted to screw up their mojo ahead of the first round of competition for the year. Whatever the reason I don't have any shooting reports from anyone else to post here. Maybe the guys at the indoor range tomorrow will be more willing to put a bend in it.
Thom

[sticksnstones]

I shot the bow a bit more today as I was taking pictures of it and putting it under a magnifying glass. Man that thing is thumping the target HARD with a 645 grain arrow!

BTW, thanks for the PM Dave. I was a little worried about doing a full draw on a 62" bow, but it has been handling it just fine. Here she is with a 35" arrow on the shelf:
     

Hopefully I can get some video of me shooting it tomorrow night.
Thom

[khardrunner]

Video would be cool!

[HMlongbow]

Thom
That looks awesome and glad your liking the bow.  How is the stack for you?  It starts to stack at about 3.5lbs after the 29" mark on a 62" bow and about 2.75-3.0 on a 64" bow.  Let me know what you have seen shooting the bow at that draw.
Thanks and good shooting,
Dave

[sticksnstones]

I'm really not noticing any stack or pinch with it at all. They've got a tree at the range with a scale on it, maybe I'll get a chance to put it up there an see what numbers the data shows. Going just by feel, I don't feel it.

If I'm stacking on some pounds it's just making the arrows fly faster      

The other thing I notice in the picture, it looks like my anchor with this grip is right about 31". That could account for some of the lighter feeling/less pinch observations too.

I'm loving the bow Dave, I'm really thankful to have several days to shoot it and get to know it's ins and outs instead of just a few arrows at Kalamazoo or Comptons or something like that. Thanks for doing the pass around!
Thom

[HMlongbow]

Thom
Glad you like it so far and keeping with the updates.  It's always good to have this type of feedback and see what others like and or dislike about bows whether mine or someone else's.
Thanks and good shooting,
dave

[sticksnstones]

OK guys, as long as you don't make fun of my video quality or shooting form too much, here are a few videos.
   
   

So I shot *140 shots with it last night and the bottom of my ring finger did get a tiny bit sore. If other guys drawing 31"+ are thinking about a Hitman, I'd suggest a 64" or even 66" bow just so you could really enjoy a long day of shooting it.

Enjoy the videos, I still have more pictures and comments to post when work lets up a little.

Dave, want to confirm next shooter and address for me via PM?
Thom

[gringol]

That is a sweet looking bow.  Who do I need to sleep with to get on the list?  

[sticksnstones]

Hey Charlie, want to PM me your shipping address?

I think it would be better to ship this to you early, else I might decide to make a run for the border and keep it    

[Gen273]

PM sent.

I can't waith to get my hands on it.

[HMlongbow]

Thom
Thanks for all the great feedback, pics and videos you shot.  It was great to see what the long draw looks like.
Dave

[sticksnstones]

Originally posted by Gen273:
PM sent.

I can't waith to get my hands on it.

According to the USPS, Saturday should be your lucky day!!!

Dave, it was a lot of fun to do! I do have a little list of fine points and pictures I will update here while the bow is on it's way to Kentucky. Just gotta wrap up some work stuff first.

Already looking forward to hearing what Charlie thinks of it!
Thom

[sticksnstones]

Alrighty, time for my wrap up on this bow.

First off I'd like to give a huge thank you to Dave for giving me the chance to shoot this bow for several days and really put it through it's paces. This entire pass around is a very generous offer to our community, and I'm very glad I had the opportunity to participate!

For the record I offered to give some critical feedback to him offline or give him a preview of what I intended to post here and he declined them both. He basically said to just lay it out here like I see it. Saying something like that takes guts!

Alright, let's get into the meat of it! The bow shoots great for me, the arrows are hitting with authority, it's handling my draw very well. For all the points below I tried to have the perspective of "what if this was my long awaited for custom bow, what would I think when I first looked at it?" Dave, I think this is the type of feedback you are hoping for.

LIMBS
The Mappa is spectacular, and I think this brush work looks good:
   

But then just a little farther up the limb we have this:
   

Two things here, one is the difficult placement of those dark spots in the burl. It would have been nice if it was a little more cooperative in giving you space to write on it. A little more puzzling is the weird angle on that lamination line. I say it's puzzling because the other 3 look great, nice fine edge, square, and symmetrical like this:
   

And even in a close up it looks great, like this:
   

Additionally all the other glue ups look great, I couldn't get a macro lens to pick up any pockets of any kind. Here is just one example shot:
   

RISERS
On to the riser itself. Here is the right handed riser with the phelonic footing. The two pin system and the alignment of the bolt is excellent. It's super tight and exacting. I don't think there is any room for improvement in this link up:

   

I am curious, every other 3 piece TD bow I've owned has either had cork or felt between the limbs and the riser, but this one doesn't. I noticed a little residue, was there something in between here originally? Even if there wasn't, the lockup was so tight the bow shot without any buzz and super quiet.

On the left hand riser I noticed a little splintering around one threaded insert
   

I know this happens sometimes, but filling it with some epoxy or something to prevent any further damage might have been a good idea (unless this happened during the pass around, I did notice some dings and small gouges in each riser that appear to be wear and tear.)
*** Too many pictures for one post

[sticksnstones]

*** Here we go again
STRING GROOVES AND LIMB TIPS
I know people have different opinions, but I think the craftsmanship of a bow and the skill of the bowyer often shows up in the care put into the grooves and tips. I believe if anyone wants to know about the quality of work that Dave is capable of doing, this is the place to look.

   

   

   

Both tips, front and back, are completely beautiful and perfectly symmetrical. This combination of artistic vision and craftsmanship can't be faked. This is very nice work!

HANDLE SHAPE
Last thing about the bow itself, let's talk about this grip for just a moment. I know Dave said he can make all different styles, but this particular one didn't fit me at all. I've shot a few other bows of another brand that is pretty famous for their finger groves and they felt great.  I've shot tons of bows without any finger groove that felt good to me too. This wide separation between the forefinger and the second finger didn't work for me at all. I ended up just putting the tip of my forefinger on or under the high point in the ridge. Now my shooting partner is very critical of grips. He's been shooting for several decades and pretty much dislikes the grip on any bow he picks up. He held this grip and REALLY liked it. I'm not trying to say this grip is bad, I just wish a little more conventional shape was on the pass around riser for me personally. Obviously there are some people who like it.

STRIKE PLATE VS MY FEATHERS
My first real disappointment was the strike plate, a VERY small thing. I only shot about 250 arrows with this bow but the leading edge on my fletchings started peeling up on all my arrows towards the end. I noticed the velcro was gathering little bits of feather and glue on it every few shots so I'm guessing it's the culprit. I can't say for sure, but I've never had feathers start peeling up on me before. Maybe my arrows were too stiff, but it would have been nice to have the same soft side velcro on the strike plate that was used on the shelf. Of course this wouldn't be an issue if this were my new bow, I'd just rip it off the day I took it out of the package and put on something more to my tastes, but I thought it detracted from my overall impression of the bow at first glance so I'd mention it. Especially with some torn up feathers a few days later.

STRING
Second complaint is the string. It was a bit worn from the previous shooters, to be expected. It was also REALLY tight on my nocks. Wanting to get some better speed and accuracy, I made a new string for it so I could get a better release. My groups did tighten up and I gained a little over 5 feet per second on the average. Dave, I don't know where you source your strings or if you make your own, but I think a little skinnier in the serving would fit the average arrow a little better.

Dave, I tossed that string in the box and I hope it finds it's way to you as a thank you for letting me shoot one of your bows for all this time. If your serving was a little too tight, mine might be a little too loose at .018 so you might want to reserve it at .024. Teaser pics of your new string:

   

   

CLOSING
After closely inspecting this bow several times and shooting it quite a bit I can say I'd be comfortable recommending a call to Dave to someone looking for a takedown longbow.

If I were ordering one for myself, I'd ask for:
- 3 piece takedown for portability
-  66" to better accommodate my draw length
- some awesome limb veneers and tip overlays like these!
- some type of hardwood riser with complimentary grain/burl/figuring for limbs
- standard low grip handle, no finger groove
- phelonic footing for limb mounts
- antler bolts would look great, and not require an allen wrench that could be lost  
- skinnier string
- either a leather or calf hair strike plate, or none so I could install my own

All in all, that is very few, and very minor changes from the stock bow being shipped around.

Great bow Dave, thanks again for letting a bunch of us yahoos shoot it!!!
Thom

[skilonbw]

Really enjoyed the thorough write up and the new string Thom. I agree with you after my assessment that Dave make a really nice bow that I would put on my short list to think about buying.

[Gen273]

Thom,

That was a great review!!! You hit it out of the park. If all bows had that kind of a write up about them, we could make an informed choice about a purchase without even shooting one.

Thanks
Charlie

[khardrunner]

Agreed. That's the way it should be done. Nice work!

[Bud B.]

Dang good writeup. Thom you should write reviews for national publications. That was thorough and quite accurate after having shot the bow myself. I think Dave has the makings of an excellent line. I still can't get over the limbs and how well they fit BOTH risers like a custom glove.

[sticksnstones]

Thanks everybody! Just like the rest of you, now I'm excited to see what these last few folks think of it!
Thom

[HMlongbow]

Thom
I have to say you really layed it out there for everyone to see.  I couldn't be happier.  That is what I want to see as well as others in these types of reviews so that others can accurately read what the whole hoopla is about.  I thank you for being honest and just saying what you thought.  I have nothing to hide and hope others here feel that way as well.  
Thanks and good shooting to all as I am really enjoying the feedback and look forward to the next.
Dave