Speak up or keep your mouth shut???!!

[Terry Green]

3 feet @ 15 yards is not a 'group'...its not even a 'cluster'....well...you could call it s a cluster 'something' I guess..          

[Onestringer]

If I were in your shoes I would have kept my mouth shut.  I would have done the same as you.

[JimB]

Hah!

[Scott Teaschner]

Kirk I feel you may have not completely read my post. If you would have you would have read the word HOT MELT. This was not to list every thing that does work just to show what does not work and an example on educating.


Paddy I like your whisper phrase I will have to remember that and also try to practice it more.


BeNoIt well said.

[Kituwa]

Yes it was a joke,though if you saw me shoot you might not think so,lol.

[Hud]

All good points.

I would lean toward offering help. It may have been his equipment, the setup was wrong to the point no one could shoot it. Were the arrows the problem, string height, nocking point, or was it his form? No one wants to see someone gut shoot and animal, or get mauled by a angry bear.

[Rob DiStefano]

when you see a archer fumbling like a newbie when attempting to nock an arrow to string, you become suspicious that something is awry.  

then seeing said archer spray arrows at 15 yards pretty much sums up that this person should NOT be hunting at any distance - it sheds foul light on both trad bowhunting and other weapon type hunting, does a disservice to the person him/herself, is not at all good for the guide/outfitter, and is NOT the ethically righteous thing to do for the game we want to swiftly put down dead.  that gut shot bear being the case in point.  

this is NOT to shed a negative light on the poster!  who hasn't at one point or another in their lives made a mistake and not offered your opinions and help?  for starters, ME.  i try to learn from my mistakes.  to err is human, and i admit to my humanity on almost a daily basis.

a tactful and serious conversation with that newbie archer would be in order.  and if it didn't bear fruit, time to inform the guide/outfitter and let the chips fall where they may.

[PaddyMac]

Originally posted by Kituwa:
Are you telling me 3 foot groups are not normal?

One of the funniest things I've heard on this contraption in weeks.

But what was he shooting at, a barn?

But all that said, there was a thread somewhere this summer about qualifying tests on military bases. No sir. I'm not for that.

[David Yukon]

I didn't read all the commens, but to me it was not on you to tell him, if he was alowed, to hunt with is bow or not... That said I would of expected the guide to say something. At least see if the guy was able to do better at 12 yards, or 10 yards, and from there tell him that this was the distance he had to shoot period!

[David Yukon]

one more thing, I have a friend who own a bear hunting outfinting in Quebec, and she told me one day that after having bow hunters shoot pourly at games, they don't offer bow hunt anymore, so maybe saying something to tha guide like Gonzoso said would be a great thing to do!!

[joe ashton]

you did the right thing.  If any one had a dog in this fight it would have been the guides.  Just my opinion.

[ChuckC]

I jumped to the end and missed reading some comments.  Here we go back to proficiency testing.

You were shooting at 15 yards.  What if his limit is normally 10, or 8.  What if the baits were placed less than ten yards from the tree and that is what he was told ahead of time by the guide service.  

I have been on three guided hunts and they ALL were closer than 15 yard shots.  The first had his baits 6 yards from the base of the tree.  

There is the potential for a lot of misunderstandings here that we don't know about.

I am not condoning bad shooting,  but, hey, lets make the proficiency testing at 50 or 75 yards and if you can't shoot that far. . . tough.  Never mind that you normally won't shoot farther than 10 yards at a critter.

Do we really know all the facts ?
ChuckC

[Bjorn]

If I am a participant in the hunt I will focus on my hunt. If I am in any way running the hunt well that's another matter and the guy with the 3 foot group becomes my responsibility.
As a participant I don't need to or want to usurp the authority of the people running the hunt.

[Mint]

I would either have offered to help the guy out or kept my mouth shut depending on his personality. I was very lucky in that when I started hunting I had friend take me under his wing and really help me out. I'll always appreciate that.

[awbowman]

quote:Originally posted by Terry Green:
3 feet @ 15 yards is not a 'group'...its not even a 'cluster'....well...you could call it s a cluster 'something' I guess..        

[awbowman]

While we seem to be handing out our opinion, here is mine.

As much as I despise someone telling someone what people can or cannot do, I believe in “general” self proficiency tests.   In terms of a proficiency test, I say if you cannot hit vitals at 20 yards, 8 out of 10 times you need to practice before you set out to hunt (notice I’m not saying you CAN’T or shouldn’t be allowed to hunt), that’s just respecting the animal we hunt IMO.   Even then I’d limit my shots to something closer.  I don't care HOW good you are at 8 or 10 yards, bottom line is you need to be able to stretch that distance proficiently BECAUSE YOU WILL SOONER OR LATER do so!  

We all know that we ALL will make a bad shot if we shoot enough, I'm speaking about  an honest assessment and examination of your abilities.

Having said that, I do not think it is a hunter's place (not the guide)to tell another hunter what he should or shouldn't do.  That decision is with the hunter, so no I would not have said anything except for some helpful hints since everyone venturing out to hunt should be doing better than 3'.  He is doing something wrong and IMO it has nothing to do with his "ability" per sa and everything to do with his form or equipment (both correctable).

You know I just had a thought about something Rob referred to this week, overbowed?

[ChuckC]

or really overwhelmed by the presence of all those other experienced archery Gods watching him shoot.

AW  why 20 yards.  Why not 40 yards ?  Why are you (or I) telling him where he should shoot to or from ?
ChuckC

[ChuckC]

Heck  maybe the poor guy was trying to surround the target first before he actually killed it !
ChuckC

[lpcjon2]

Its amazing what money can buy you.And embarassing that a guide would let that dude hunt the way he practiced.No respect for the animal(from the hunter) and only respect for money (from the guide).

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Originally posted by Scott Teaschner:
Kirk I feel you may have not completely read my post. If you would have you would have read the word HOT MELT. This was not to list every thing that does work just to show what does not work and an example on educating.

 

Ooooops!  I humbly apologize Sir. i did miss the hot melt due to the the text wrap... sorry about that...            


I guess what gets my goat about this story is seeing people show up to go hunting with no effort what so ever to prepare for the hunt and be accurate with their weapon of choice.

I've see this same display using high powered rifles and high tech compound equipment too. it not the equipment, it's the hunter... actually these guys are NOT hunters at all, they are poeople who purchace weapons and go hunting unprepared, or are too busy with life to practice.

These guys roll into camp and start screwing on brand new broadheads, and wiping the dust off their bow they just pulled out of the closet, or under the bed where it's laid since last hunting season.  

This type of activity puts our sport in a bad light.  I'm all for a proficiency test.  i mean they test you before you get a drivers license. Why not for the use of a lethal weapon?