Thanks for the advise. A friend of mine took a tumble a couple of weeks ago, he wasn't hurt but it shook him up pretty good. He told me "remember when we were younger and you took a fall, you popped back up and looked around to see if anybody saw you. It's not like that anymore, it was like you dropped a sack of wheat, just a big thud. There was no popping back up." As I get older I'm spending more time in ladder stands, I'm still young enough to tote them in on my back but to old to be climbing trees like a monkey.