New York Bucks Improving

[turkey65]

My feeling is when they did away with the county by county doe allotment system and lumped it into larger management areas it compounded the problem,take area 2G where I,ve hunted for years it incompasses 10 different counties or parts of with a big variation in terrain.From big woods to an agriculture,I can't see how this big an area can be managed effectively,I haven't seen a noticable improvement in the more remote areas I hunt,there's always have been some nice bucks taken I took a 142 incher in the 80's but to say flat out the entire program is succesful I disagree.The herd is way down,how do I build the excitement in my younger grandsons when you can sit day after day in proven areas and not see a deer,and it's not the Game Commission's excuse that there isn't any feed out there,sure the mast crop is down this year but there's always has been other sources and that hasn't changed,there's more browse then before with that drastic herd reduction practice the deer just aren't there.

[Earl Jeff]

Antler restriction I think is a great thing. I wish they would take it from 3 to 4 points in Pa
NOW A WORD OF WARNING for you NY hunters If the NY DEC decides to start a Anterless deer erridication program because its the NEW in thing deer management DO everything in your power to stop it unless you feel like sitting in the woods for days or maybe weeks without seeing a deer it is a very tough to introduce new hunters into the sport when they don't see anything for days My Son is 13 he would rather play video games then sit for hours on end looking at trees

[ron w]

Earl Jeff......I sit for weeks now and don't see anything......so I guess it's already here in some areas!! There I go venting again....sorry!

[Earl Jeff]

No reason to be Sorry Ron when the public is being lied to with things like there are to many deer there destroying the forest. etc, etc.
Trust me there are other motivations behind this. guess I'm venting now ?

[crotch horn]

I hunt family land in Pa as well as NY. Before the Gary Although plan I would go down & see 150 deer in a week of bowhunting. Since the plan now I can go for a week and see maybe 50. Difference is I see much better bucks & the habitat is better. Needs to be balanced. I hunt in 3C. The doe season doesn't open until the first Saturday there because they overkilled the does in the area. I rifle hunt there a couple days as well. Feels good to pass on a small Buck knowing he will be there next yr. In NY if I pass on that Buck he gets shot on the next property over.

[Izzy]

Tim, your right on. The days of seeing 50-70 deer in NY forest was a case of overpopulation I think. When I lived on the PA border I remember seeing the browse line all along 84. Thats not natural and is harmful to the ecosystem overall. I stay away from there to steer clear of in laws nowadays but I would imagine you no longer see that browse line if the deer population is so low.

[Earl Jeff]

The correct balance is the key to Deer Management not Not making money on licenses and Political pressure from Insurance lobbiest. Just saying We all know that wouldn't happen.

[turkey65]

Lets not forget the farm lobbiest and the tree grower lobbiest which our DCNR is one of.My son and grandsons hunted with me the first day of rifle season half of us did not see a deer on State Forest and State Game lands and there's food plots in these areas.

[vintage-bears]

Thanks to all for your input. It has been a very interesting tread and a learning experience too.

I want to make a note if I may:

I have a friend who lives near me in Sullivan County who says he has not seen a deer.
He swears they are disappearing.
Here's the interesting part of his theory;

He has not gone into the woods AT ALL in the morning.
He says he does'nt like "cold going to warm temps",
He only hunts the afternoon "warm going to cold temps" and gets in his woods at 3pm for rifle season and 4pm for bow season.

He never scouts and does more complaining than hunting. He has the best equipment, every gadget and I can't forget his scentlock suit.

I like to refer to him as "special".

Everyone else around him is in the woods and has either killed a deer or 2 or has at least had encounters with deer.

Maybe he's right. I no longer preach to him about hunting.
I simply tell him he's right.

[ron w]

Well I don't know about your friend, but I have hunted in the AM getting in before day light, Hunted till legal shooting time in the afternoon,sundown. I have gone at mid day for 3-4 hours and I have also stayed all day predawn till sundown. I have hunted Hamilton, Fulton, Montgomery and Albany counties. In over 80 hours I have seen one flag and a deer at 60 yards that I have no idea what it was buck or doe. Seems I would have seen something more than what I have......I did before,what can I say,maybe I just have a black cloud over my after doing this for over 40 years!

[Shawn Leonard]

I would love them to pass a 3pt. on at least one side state wide. I think guys would love the results after just a few years. I like shooting tender deer as well so I shoot fawns and 1.5yr. old doe's that did not get bred the previous november. I have to disagree about letting a spikey or forkey walk, it will make a difference. It will take some time but it will make a difference. I still believe our biggest issue right now with the deer population is the damn coyotes. They are reeking havoc with our deer herds. I have a friend who has taken 54 coyotes so far this year and over a couple hundred in the last few years. He tells me that deer make up as much as 60-70% of their diet. Don't listen to DEC, they released a study saying the coyote pop. is only 6-7 animals every 10 sq. miles, come on what a joke. I have that many as I type this with 800 yards of my house alone. Kill off the yotes and I promoise the deer population would increase dramatically. Shawn

[Wapiti Chaser]

I'm with Shawn on this. A couple of years ago I starting passing on young bucks on my property. I know most of them get shot during gun season when they walk off my property but the ones that don't .... The last six bucks I have shot have been nice eight pointers and I love to think I let them walk when they were younger. I also think NY should go to a one buck system. This would encourge people to pass on younger bucks, The coyotes around me are very proficient hunters. They hunt in groups and "comb" the hills about fifty yards apart and four or five across. They take plenty of deer. Alomost nightly I can hear a pack howling.

[guspup]

Hi Ron,
How's the acorn crop down in the Mohawk Valley? It's about zero around here, and I have really had to adjust my strategy, but after about 4 weeks, I found where they are hiding :-)

[guspup]

Izzy,
You are more than right about he deer hunting in Hamilton County. Statistically, sitting in a tree in the middle of six million acres and hoping for a deer to walk under you is a bit of a stretch. You need to work it a good bit harder up there, but they're there :-)

[ron w]

No mast crop anywhere I have hunted this year...I did run into a few beech nuts up north but not many!

[guspup]

I heard the beech nuts were good on the Cedar River too. All we can hope for is a good mast next year :-)

[ron w]

I may do a canoe or kayak hunt up north next year....just to do something different.

[Izzy]

Guspup, Cedar river had a super beech crop this year more than I can ever remember seeing in my 25 years of hunting there. Cyclic Rivers can attest to that. We jumped deer off of a beech flat less then 100 yards from the truck on the way in. I also hunted with Ken at his place in Johnstown and you literraly could not avoid stepping on them on the skidder trails. Just my observations.

               Just yesterday I heard the craziest thing from a friend of mine. He had a tough year hunting this year with only doe and 1 small buck sen in the Adirondacks and he thought it was because most deer had never eaten beech nuts since the crop has been so poor for the last 5 or 6 year  and didnt recognize them as a food source. Poor Mother Nature cant do anything right these days.      :rolleyes:

[adkmountainken]

iF they ever implant a 3 point reg in the Northern zone it will be time to hang up the bow, they would need to specify areas. thank God we do not have the coyote problem North, they are not to blame here. healty beech nut crop this year but no acorns and as Charlie said something needs to be done as my hunting lives and dies with the mast crop, no apple trees where i hunt either. i was 3 yards from a large 8 point this year hunting South which was a blast!!! the call to hunt still burns STRONG in me and i prefer to hunt the mountain with a CHANCE to see deer rather then hunt South whith a good chance of running in to other hunters. as Izzy stated hunting North for bucks requires MUCH more then looking for tracks, a TON of leg work and knowledge of the land, even then to take one with the bow is a true trophy, my hats still off to Bowspirit for the buck he took on the mountain!!!!

[vintage-bears]

Shawn,  Wapiti.
I agree with you guys entirely.
I did forget to mention about the coyotes by me as well.
We have plenty of them and they are having their way with the deer.
They need to be thinned out.......Philip