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Author Topic: Beginner has questions  (Read 238 times)

Offline wanderling

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Beginner has questions
« on: November 28, 2011, 06:54:00 PM »
I have a couple of questions.

Why are longbows generally more expensive than recurves? That's the impression I'm getting from the shopping around I've done so far.

Is a longbow acceptable for a beginner (completely new to archery) or is it more for experienced archers?

How do you know what is the right bow length for you?

How important is the shelf where the arrow is supposed to sit? What is the deal with "shooting off the knuckle"?

What is a suggested draw weight for someone new to the sport: 30#, 35# or 40#? I read in Bear's book to find a bow you can hold at full draw for 10 seconds and get one 5# heavier. Is that a good rule-of-thumb?

I'm reading a few books at the moment and waiting for the traditional expo near me in January (in Kalamazoo, MI). For those of you who have been to the expo before, will there be bows for sale that I could shoot? Will they be selling arrows and other gear? I'm trying to decide if I want to wait for January to pick up my first bow there. I know it's important to shoot before buying. I'm sure there will be lots of experienced archers who I could get advice from.

Thanks everyone.

Offline KHALVERSON

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Re: Beginner has questions
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2011, 07:02:00 PM »
kevin
the k-zoo expo is a great place to try out bows
some will be for sale also
along with arrows and most everything you would need for trad bowhuntin
bow weights for a newbie are purly subjective
depending on your size and strength
typically a 35-40 pound bow for and adult male is pretty good to learn good form
but like i said that all subjective
i hope this helps a little
kevin

Offline Widow's Son

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Re: Beginner has questions
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2011, 07:04:00 PM »
A little more info would be helpful. Your age and physical condition are very important. That being said my advice is not to get too heavy a bow the first time. Fred Bear's advice is right on. Fred was great for introducing people to archery and any advice he gave would be a great place to start IMHO. Recurve or longbow is really your choice. My advice is to not swap back and forth between the two styles. Shooting a recurve is different than a longbow and vice versa. The two styles don't complement each other IMO. I shoot both but tend to stick with the recurve.
Welcome to the club, it's a great journey!

Ross
1969 Bear Super Kodiak 45#
1966 Bear Kodiak 52#
2000 Black Widow MAII
46# at 28"
Roy Hall Navajo Stick, 64" Caddo 55#@28"

Offline ChuckC

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Re: Beginner has questions
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2011, 07:06:00 PM »
Welcome Kevin
I think you will get lots of answers to your questions.  For several, there are no good "generic" answers, example  "best bow length" and others.  Sure, your length of draw may limit you in some respects, but how the bow feels to you is paramount.  Might I suggest, before spending money, attand at least one larger trad shoot, meet some of the folks and ask to shoot some of their equipment.  In this way you get to feel first hand what the equipment is and does and you can start forming your own opinions.  

Regarding starting weight,  more of the same.  While a beefy strong lad may easily handle 50 or more pounds from the start, a less beefy lad, or young lady may need to start at much less, although I think most men can handle abut 45 pounds and up.  

Although I have not had the opportunity to attend a Kalamazoo Expo, it will be similar to many of the others and yes, there should be bows for sale and places to shoot them.  If you are planning to attend, I suggest you continue reading, but wait to go there before purchasing a bow.  Get your hands on some first before you decide.

ChuckC

Online rastaman

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Re: Beginner has questions
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2011, 07:07:00 PM »
Longbows aren't more expensive...you can spend a little or a lot on recurves and longbows.  
Yes, your bow will have a shelf on it for your arrow to sit.  Grab hold of someone or several someones at the expo and bend their ear.  Shoot as many bows as you possibly can while there.
Good luck to you sir!  Your journey has just begun!    :wavey:
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Offline David Yukon

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Re: Beginner has questions
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2011, 07:23:00 PM »
Get with someone in your area that have some expertise in the mather!! They must be a few in MI, taht could help you out... I hoppe!

What about a shooting club, there is usualy a few trad shooter in the club that can help you out, at least to get you started and after that you can choose your style etc.

Online McDave

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Re: Beginner has questions
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2011, 07:29:00 PM »
I haven't found longbows to be more expensive than recurves.  There may be more entry level recurves available (around $100 - $150) just because there is more demand for them at that level, but at the high end (say $500 and up), I think recurves and longbows cost about the same for a given level of quality or reputation of the bowyer.

Longbows and recurves are very personal choices.  You could start with one or the other and shoot it all your life, or you could end up with a wall full of both longbows and recurves, some of which you still actually shoot (but the rest hold some fond memories).  Generally speaking, a longbow is considered harder to master and shoot accurately than a recurve, which is why they have their own division in most archery tournaments.  But you're judging yourself against other people shooting the same type of bow, just like you wouldn't compare either bow to the accuracy you would get shooting a compound with sights.  Don't get me wrong; unless you turn out to be a very good shot indeed, there will be longbow shooters who will whip your tail no matter what kind of recurve you're shooting.

Bowyers will publish the recommended draw lengths for their bows.  For example, a particular 60" bow might be specified as working best for draw lengths of between 27" - 31".  People might want a shorter bow if they intend to hunt from ground blinds or in brush, or they might want a longer bow for increased accuracy in target or 3D shooting.  You should probably never buy a bow where your draw length is longer than the recommended range, but it is okay to buy a bow where your draw length is less than the recommended range if you like shooting a longer bow.

Most modern bows have an arrow shelf which is cut in so the arrow rests close to the midpoint of the bow limb (centershot).  The bow will accept a wider range of arrows without getting bad arrow flight, and the shelf helps with accuracy.  Primitive bows, commonly made from one piece of wood (self bows) may have some kind of minimal shelf stuck on the side of the bow, or no shelf at all.  You're not going to be able to shoot these bows as accurately as modern bows, but that really doesn't matter if what you are interested in is shooting primitive bows.

I think Bear's rule is fine, but I would expand it to say hold at full draw for 10 seconds without straining or shaking, and be able to repeat that maybe 5 times with a 1 minute rest in between pulls.  I think the 5# heavier is because you will gain some strength as soon as you start shooting.  Don't kid yourself though, you will learn much faster and shoot much more accurately if you start with a bow lighter than you need rather than one heavier than you need.

Usually there are bows available to shoot at trad expos; however, I don't know how much good that is going to do you if you don't know how to shoot yet.  I bought a bow at a trad expo I went to recently because I thought it shot great, and now I wonder why I did it, and I have been shooting for many years.
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Offline BowHunterGA

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Re: Beginner has questions
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2011, 08:50:00 PM »
Welcome Kevin!

All good points above. I would also agree with others that longbows are not necessarily more expensive, there are cheaper and costly choices with either.

Regarding draw weight, it really depends on too many factors to try and guess what your ideal starting weight should be. I started shooting wheelie bows at the age of 16 and shot some customized bows that had draw weights of 100+ pounds. When I started shooting trad I had the 55# Damon Howatt listed in my signature and I was able to shoot it just fine. Early on I convinced myself that the weight was hindering my form and was the cause of my poor accuracy. So I found and purchased a 45# recurve and quickly learned that it just takes a lot of work to re-learn how to shoot without all the gadgets. I think I only shot that 45# recurve 20-30 times before going back to the Mamba and selling the lighter bow.

The best advice I can give you (and you will probably see this echoed alot) is find a local traditional archery club or group that has meets or 3d shoots and go try out a lot of bows. Also, ask for advice from others there regarding form etc. You will find that us trad archers love our bows, and we love to show them off and let others shoot them. In the end you will be glad you did and it will probably save you some headaches and some money.

Offline Jack Shanks

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Re: Beginner has questions
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2011, 08:58:00 PM »
I think David Yukon gave you a great piece of advice. Find someone experienced that can give you a little help.

Lots of members here on Trad Gang from Michigan and more than likely someone close to where you live that would be more than happy to give you a little of their time.

Where do you live Kevin?
Jack Shanks

Offline wanderling

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Re: Beginner has questions
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2011, 11:10:00 PM »
Ann Arbor. I would love to hang out if there is a group or person nearby.

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

If you see a beginner at the Kalamazoo expo asking a lot of questions, that'll be me!

It seems like a set of basic gear costs $200 or more. I'll certainly try to buy used equipment if possible.

Offline wanderling

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Re: Beginner has questions
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2011, 11:13:00 PM »
People here are so welcoming, though.

It feels great!  :D

Offline David Yukon

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Re: Beginner has questions
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2011, 11:55:00 PM »
Have a look at the classified, thre is a lot of great bows for sale at good price! Of course it is a good idea to try befor you buy, that said, I never did, and always been happy with my buy, just be sure you look for a proven model and bowyer.

I would say, stay in the lower end of your confortable draw weight so you can progress easily and with lest frustration.

If you can find your self a old bow in the 35#@28, it would do you great to learn and to practice!! When you are ready and you have a better idea of what you want(longbow, recurve, take down, one piece...) you can start looking for a bow that you will be abble to hunt with( here in the Yukon, we need a minimum of 45#@28).
Good luck.
Cheers

Offline RM81

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Re: Beginner has questions
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2011, 09:57:00 AM »
Welcome to TradGang.  I would suggest a nice light weight used bow to start out with.  You can find them for under $100.  You'll most likely want one a bit heavier after you get more familiar with shooting traditional.  If you can find a good deal on a used bow, you may be able to recoup most of the money if you ever want to sell it.  I also agree that the best thing to do is find someone near you to learn from.

Offline Shawn Leonard

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Re: Beginner has questions
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2011, 05:03:00 PM »
McDave has some sound advise in his post. More info about you would help us a lot. How big are ya, are ya strong for your size. I know guys who are 110#s soaking wet and have no problem shooting 65-70# bows, that said it is always good to start out with a lighter weight to practice good form and such, but not too light that if you plan to hunt, you don't want to have to buy another bow. Give us more info, I have a couple older bows here that are all good shooters and may even have some arrows that match them fairly well. If you are willing to pay return shipping I would send ya one(I will pay shipping to you) to shoot as long as ya like than return when you decide on a bow and weight you want. I have a 30#er at 28"s a 45#er at 28"s and a 49#er at 28"s. All old recurves that have their share of battle scar's but are all great shooters. You may have to get a new string for whatever I send ya but other than that you would be good to go. Shawn
Shawn

Offline Shawn Leonard

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Re: Beginner has questions
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2011, 05:06:00 PM »
I will also say this, a quality matched set of arrows(spined for your bow) is way more important than the bow itself. I can shoot most $50 dollar bows as well as my 1200 dollar customs as long as I have an arrow matched to the bow. Shawn
Shawn

Offline finkm1

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Re: Beginner has questions
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2011, 05:38:00 PM »
There will be lots of bows for sale at K-ZOO. I would go on sunday, there is alot less people. You can shoot all kinds of bows. I would suggest you stop at the Traditional Bowhunter Magazines booth and buy TJ Connrads book "The Traditional Bowhunters Hand book". TJ would be more than happy to autogragh it for you. Also you can go to G Fred Assbell and buy a shooting book, he will also sighn it for you. Lots of great people there that are more than happy to answer any questions, same with this site.  Ask away and you will get lots of answers.
"When in Rome, DO Rome"
 
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Offline wanderling

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Re: Beginner has questions
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2011, 04:27:00 PM »
Hi Shawn, thanks for the help.

I'm 5'11" and 170 lbs. Fairly strong for my age. I don't lift weights so I'm not exactly sure how to quantify my strength. I've worked on a farm before and am in good physical shape. I think I have above average strength for a 22-year-old. The first time I ever shot a bow it was my friend's 50# and it tired me out after five arrows. The only other time I've shot a bow was at a range with a low-poundage rental that I felt I could shoot all day.

Thanks for the tip on arrows, I've heard elsewhere how important they are and someone just sent me two links regarding tuning. I like your idea and would be willing to pay return shipping. I guess it's not possible to know what one likes in a bow without trying all the various kinds.

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