woodsmanship skills being lost?

[moleman]

I was looking thru a hunting catalog the other day and it got me to thinking,are basic woodsmanship skills being lost? There were so many items that will find your game for you,hide your scent,find your way for you,find your downed game,instant blinds,scents baits,etc.
What happened to scouting an area,playing the wind,a compass and topo map,tracking skills,and others.
Im not saying that the new poducts are bad,but do we loose a little something when we use these things to make it easier?
I know its our responsibility to pass our knowledge and experiance on to others,but i wonder, will technology and the claims of making you a better hunter, faster and easier over ride the woodsmanship skills that we pass on as hunters.To me these skills are a huge part of the love of hunting and the overall experiance.
Im not trying to be contriversial,just fishing for youre thoughts on this subject.  

[GRINCH]

They're not being lost just improved upon.

[arrowslinger22]

My answer is that when we look for shortcuts, we diminish our abilities.  Looking for the easy way is not for me.  I stay away from the stuff you are talking about.  My successes are my experiences in the fields and woods.  I don't know about others, but the using technology to avoid learning skills is a waste of time.

[Mark Baker]

Agree with Spencer.   It really goes against the mantra of challenge in many respects.   I can certainly understand folks reasoning for using such things...and I believe to some degree we are all guilty, but we are only cheating ourselves, really.   It lessens the journey and shortcuts the process, although many will argue that it enriches it somehow...like game cameras opening up more possibilities.  I guess I still like the "unknowns" some, and my abilities and knowledge, and faith in them, being tested.  

I suspect that most of us here, are here for those challenges, and should we not be able to use those crutches, we would still be at it.   We all have to choose our level of challenge and live with our choices, year to year.

[Stiks-n-Strings]

This should end up being a good thread.

 I remember when I first started hunting about 20 years ago I always loved looking at the hunting catalogs and drooling over the latest gadget and this that and the other. Never got most of it and somewhere I ended up with to much of it. LOL

 I've spent the last seven years hunting with trad gear for the most part and I find my self getting to where I take less technology and gadgetry every year and pick up something useful from a better time be it a tool or a skill.

 I don't think woodsmanship is lost but in a society of instant gratification it sure seems it is harder to find. I used to be all about the kill but over the last several years it really has become about the lifestyle and the journey.

 I have more woodsmanship skills than alot of younger folks and try to pass on what I can. I also try to learn what I can from the folks that have been doing it longer than me. I thrive on learning new things of old so to speak. As long as there are folks like you and me and a place like TG I don't think the simple ways of knowing and being one with the woods will ever be lost.

 Stiks

[Knotter]

Tough one to answer.  overall the marketing machine behind hunting makes it more mainstream and in many ways more acceptable - so in that way I like it.  ... I see where you are going with this though.  The problem is the continued urbanization means fewer and fewer know things that would be easy if people lived outside a city.

[Scott Teaschner]

I think if more people invested more in themselves.If they devolped all the different skill sets needed to be a good hunter and outdorsman they would be better off. In every aspect of hunting there are things we can buy that will in some minds make them a better hunter. Will the $1,000.00 bow make you a better shot or hunter than the $200.00 bow? If you have not mastered the $200.00 bow how can you expect to take advantage of what the $1000.00 bow may have to offer if any. I remeber even as kid finding out real fast just because you buy this or that it will not make you more sucessfull. What makes you better is being in the woods more than a couple weekends. Shooting your bow year round instead of two weeks before the season. You can have all the latest and greatest but if you spend two full weekends a year in the woods probably aint gonna happen. If  a couple of weekends is all that can be done and that person is happy with that let him have all the toys he wants. I dont think the deer herd will suffer much. Invest more in yourself and it will pay off and that goes for more than hunting.

[DGF]

I see both sides of this and really feel it has changed, but wouldn't say it's lost.

I'm always venturing onto new areas of state land and do alot of pre-scouting via the internet, pouring over maps, topo photos from google earth and others and seeking other information from forums like this to shorten my learning curve. Often times I have parking spots, possible bedding areas, funnels, points, swamps, creek crossings, feeding areas and potential stand sites marked on my gps before I even have a view of the land at ground level.

Once on foot my basic woodsmanship takes over. I either validate or nix what plans or thoughts I had for an area based on sign, cover, traffic, etc. and set up a more solid plan for the season.

The same things are done as they were 50 years ago, just with more technology. The stands are lighweight alluminum and not a pallet set in the crotch of a tree, I still silently sneak into my stand area well before dawn trying not do disturb game, and I'm hunting the down wind of the same trails as was done by those that came and went before me.  

Dan

[Sixby]

I've been lost twice. Both times when that was a life and death deal. Once in a huge wilderness area with no roads in 50 miles and terrible weather. Rain and cold. I was blessed to have God deliver me in that one by recognizing a landmark I had seen coming in in the morning. I found that being lost is a matter of mind. If you are misplaced you have a good state of mind to survive. When you are lost you panic. That has to be overcome. You lose faith in your ability to know where you are at at all and you stop thinking right. You literally have to sit down and rationalize things out instead of allowing panic to take over.

In the other case I was caught high in the mountains in an area I knew like the back of my hand. It started snowing and no big deal. I have been in a lot of snow. Then it becamse a whiteout. you could not see 5 feet. This was not a good deal. I headed downhill hoping to get to an elevation where I couls see and it was still solid. I literally did not have any idea what to do and so I prayed. Along comes a pick up truck driving off road out in the middle of no where and they stop and the guy says your are lost aren't you. I said yes but now I'm found. He said no you aren't , Were lost too. LOL. But We found out way out.

With these two experiences young in my western hunting life I decided to make absolutely sure I did not enter any situation where I did not have at least a fanny pack with fire , space blanket, compass,. cordage and what it would take to survive. That is with me no matter how well I know the country. I do not leave without it. Period. I also make it a point to keep myself totally oriented at all times knowing where I am form a stretch of road or a creek that I can walk to and walk out on.

God bless you all, Steve

[don_h]

Depends on where you live I think. Here in Alaska the difference is obvious in who knows what sometimes. I don't know that "woodsman ship" is the best topic to argue on the internet, but I do understand and agree with your post, though I sure enjoy google earth and game bags. It is all of our responsibility to pass on what we know to others, and I think this site goes a long way in meeting that obligation. There are surely things being missed or forgotten, but for some of us, these are the good old days, metal risers and bloodtrail flashlights included. Is it for the better, I don't know, I doubt it.

[Ragnarok Forge]

Yes.  If you look at the percentage of americans that could survive 3 days in the wilderness it is clearly diminshing.  We are becoming a very urban society.  As for gadgets dimimishing it?  I would say no.  Many people choose to buy into the hype and try to short cut success with equipment.  Most of those folks are not successful hunters.   Others use the equipment to enhance their skill sets and become more successful.  It really comes down to fewer and fewer people are teaching wilderness skills and that is why they are declining.

[Bonebuster]

Three days in the wilderness??? Most americans couldn`t survive three days without their cell phone.

There are high school graduates that cannot change a flat tire.

[michaelschwister]

I agree and believe the biggest culprit is the GPS.  We have an entire society that could not find their way to the bathroom if the sat nav birds went down. Very likely they will during the next high intensity conflict.

[Joe Subler]

Bonebuster,  there are college grads who can't change a tire.  I know because I helped one about two weeks ago!!

Joe

[LongStick64]

Since taking up this sport I have tried to simplify my approach. Coming from the compound bow to traditional I was fascinated by the simplicity. Does it work, that all depends of what is your goal when spending a day in the woods and to what cost does it take for you to achieve it. Personally if I can get into a shooting situation, whether I shoot or not is a 5 star day. For me I have found I can do that with a traditional bow, no tree stand and no camo.
So far my family isn't relying on me to feed them from my ventures into the woods. If they did I might have to reverse my choice.

[Mudd]

I need to go real slow here...lol

This is a great topic and it is making me think.(ouch)...lol

If I put my brain to work, it seems that most but not all of the technology is directed at helping the hunter be "successful"....ie putting the intended game on the ground dead.

I have to ask myself if that is my real goal and my answer is yes and no.

My next question to myself is: if I reach the point that I no longer want to kill what I'm after, would I continue to go into the field.

The answer for me is... I think I would, either with a camera or with my bow and arrows just to stump shoot.

I don't know that I have developed all the woodsman's skills I want or need but I do know that the latest technology isn't likely to be beneficial in helping me reach that point.

Therefore I choose to instead spend my money on new or (new to me) bows and let those that want to define "success" in their own way(dead animals) spend their money on the technology.

I have now spent some time trying to recall any of my hunts that I would call unsuccessful.

None come to mind, even my short hour long hunt last evening was a success in my mind.

I had my "Old Tom" in my hand, a back quiver with 5 Howard Hill tipped arrows and I stepped out of my truck into "Sherwood".

Good thought provoking thread... thanks!

[Gray Buffalo]

Yes we are losing our wilderness skills and ability to survive on our own with out gadgets. I grew up in the fifty’s and there were no DVD’s or TV shows that showed short cuts, how to’s, etc. Our father was not a hunter and there fore we learned by trail and error . I learned the hard way but when I did learned something it became a part of my hunting process. I have looked at a lot of these hunting aids but have put most of them in the not needed bank of my brain. To me learning the process is more satisfying then the kill. J M H O

[jsweka]

I killed my first buck with a bow (compound) when I was 15.  A lot of the stuff advertised today wasn't out there yet when I killed my first buck.  I figure if I was successful back then without it, I don't need it now.  Today, I'd rather take a doe with my longbow than a Pope & Young/Boone & Crocket buck with a compound/rifle because if I did, I'd just be disappointed I didn't take it with my longbow.

[Bowwild]

I think a far greater POTENTIAL crutch is the mentor.

I'm the father of a 32 year old son who I started taking with me to the woods when he was about 4 years old.  In his early years I did the scouting, put up the stands, told him what to wear, took him to the stand, and even advised him where the deer would likely come and when. I was 20 yards away when he bow-killed his first deer in Missouri.

I'm a retired Forester and Wildlife Biologist so I taught him (more than he wanted I'm sure) different trees, animals, animal behavior and habits, etc.  He learned what deer sign looked like, the sounds deer make, and many of the ways we bowhunters can blow an opportunity at a shot (I don't know any short-cut to those lessons). He was (and is) a terrific bow hunting buddy.

I noticed as he entered college that he didnt know why certain stand locations were selected. I realized that if something happened (when) to me he would be 'lost' when it comes to scouting.  So, I changed my approach.  Now we look over aerial photos together, scout the areas we hunt, and I ask him to discuss with me the pros and cons of good stand locations.

It is great to help young hunters, an essectial duty in fact. However, if we have the time, like we have with our children, we need to make sure we don't do so much for them that they learn success is achieved by doing just what Dad says.

My son has never hunted in the mountains or anywhere near anything resembling a wilderness.  He's never hunted more than 1 mile from a road or ranch lane. If I'm able I have to get him to the mountains on an elk hunt, while I still can.

Oh, I've been 'delayed' due to directional confusion on 4 occassions; once in eastern National Forest, once in an August Hoosier Cornfield, and twice in the Colorado Rockies. Thanks goodness the longest of these delays was just under an hour.  Embarrassing and anxiety-producing just the same.

[uglyjake]

Maybe so but I hope not.   It is fun to start a fire with flint playing around the house but I do take some matches and a lighter with me when I go a field along with along with a film container filled with cotton balls and petroleum jelly to start a fire if needed.