woodsmanship skills being lost?

[Smithhammer]

Originally posted by K.S.TRAPPER:


I suggest to everybody to get off the computer(Unless your at work like I am) grab there bows and get out into the woods and practice some of these lost skills your talking about.  

That's exactly what I'm doing. Last week on my whitetail tag. Later!

[wollelybugger]

My fondest memories are when we used to travel to the National forest in Forest county in Pa. and bow hunt. In those days there weren't any tree stands or compound bows and the woods went on for miles. We would all be hunting off the ground and using woods savy to get deer. Now 45 years later I'm hunting on the ground with a Osage self bow and self made arrows. I haven't changed much but everything around me sure has.lol

It doesn't make things easier with all this crap they are selling it makes things a lot more complicated. I grab my folding stool and my bow and a couple of arrows and enjoy hunting without all the extras. I even get a deer once in a while.

[Duncan]

As long as my cognitive skills remain intact I can find my way with out a compass or GPS. But I always carry a good compass and I take a reading away from my vehicle before entering the woods. I used  to do some coon hunting and I learned how to know where I was by the moon and stars as well as land marks and terrain features. Anyone can get turned around especially if your attention is interupted like when trailing a blood trail.
I'll say this about GPS, as with a compass, you need to know how to use it properly or you can still get lost with it.

[Furseeker]

I guess I’m guilty of playing on both sides of the fence , I have a GPS in every hunting pack that goes into the field with me.  They are a powerful tool when I’m exploring new territories in the spring. I mark points of interest, and then I’m confident I can get back to the exact spot months later. Out in the west where I do the majority of my hunting they are a perfect tool for determining property boundaries too.  The public ground I hunt is bordered by private properties with no fence lines to let you know when you’re crossing over into some high priced hunting areas. Out here in Utah we have Corporative Wildlife Hunting Units, (CWMU) and if you accidently find yourself just across the border on one of these that little spike elk you just arrowed could end up costing you a trespassing fine and a couple of thousand dollars in fines for hunting a CWMU without a tag.  And for getting into a particular spot in the dark without a lot of unnecessary movement and flashlight beams bouncing around the quite forest nothing beats them for that.  With all that being said I also carry my trusty and well used Silva Ranger compass in my breast pocket with a note pad and pencil. The compass gets far more use then the GPS and marking the last known location of a downed bird or where your just arrowed buck entered the tree line and then walking right to that spot always seems to impress people who have never used a compass. I use the high tech stuff to compliment my survival/ woodsmanship skills.  Every time I step into the field I’m prepared to spend at least 3 nights in the in relative comfort if the situation arises, my son is the same way. As a youngster I spent a cold and sleepless night on the mountain because I was chasing some Mule deer on an archery hunt and forgot to pay attention to time and the quickly setting sun. When I walked back into camp the next morning I vowed to never be that unprepared again.  
My 12 year old daughter is the only child I have left at home and we regularly spend one night a week every month sleeping in the tents or lean to in the back yard. I’ve tried to teach all my kids if you can do and survive when you DON’T have to it will come easier when you DO have to.

[Mark Baker]

In many ways, the knowledge is more readily available to all, via the technology....it is more in the application and practice of it where it becomes a skillset, that we no longer (as a society) have time or need for such skills.  Lets face it, we are a dying breed....and the existence of the crutches, gives no incentive for younger folks to learn them.   Those of us who are "older" and learned these skills the hardway because we had to, fondly look back on the "journey", and would'nt trade it for anything!  But its all relative.  Who is to say the way in which a particular person learns is any better of a memory to them....not me.   Also, as we get older, and we know that the ranks of hunters is quickly filling up with a bunch of "old farts" that carry the torch, we tend to adopt many of these crutches to reach goals we may have....bucket lists, perhaps, or we get to be a lot less adventurous in our older age.  When I was younger, I'd have been much more apt to head out on this cold, windy, winter day to harvest bow wood, or shoot my bow and hunt some rabbits, or any number of things....and here I am on this computer, cause it just looks miserable out there!  

I guess it's not any of our place to preach to each other our motives for being out there. Even on here our motives vary quite a bit... as does  arranging our time to pursue those things....and it does take time to do them.  Woodcraft skills are not something you really learn by reading, you have to also practice them, and it's easy to say, yes, they are disappearing as a percentage of the population that aquires these skills.   But there will always be some enthusiasts, I hope anyway, that will keep them alive.  

Also, my perspective, sitting here along the Yellowstone River in Montana, is much different than most who live in a much more urban environment.  I HAD to learn skills...as did my kids.   Even here, though, they are in a minority among their peers.

[arrowslinger22]

I guess my point is that in order to pass on those skills, including woodsmanship, you have to first learn them, practice them and teach them.  Otherwise they are lost forever.  And that would be the issue.  We must keep them alive and pass them on, or we as a people are lost with them.

[Steve in Canton]

I have been thinking a lot about this thread since my first post and through my thinking and I could be wrong so take it with a grain of salt.  I feel that the learning curve that I am going through with many of these gadgets is a form of woodsmanship.  Every generation has embraced new knowledge and added it to how they live in everyday life you go back through time you just have to l look at the native americans, as soon as they were introduced to metal they changed how they made their weapons and when they were given guns they used them.  did this make them worse in the woods, they took all available new gadgets and added to what they already knew.  the generations after them kept adding to what they already had.  we are advancing at a rapid pace and I feel that it ethical for me to use this new technology to humanly hunt the animals that I hunt.  Even though i know how to make fire with a firestarter I feel that my time is better spent using my zippo.

[LC]

Good thread. I think the basic issue is it's human nature to always find a easier way. If that wasn't true we'd still be huddled together in cave without a fire and throwing rocks at our quarry. Like so many have said its the way or the extent we use our easier way. Many  have decided personally where they "jump" off the technology band wagon or where they draw the line in the sand.

Back to the original question is woodsmanship being lost? Yes absolutely IMHO. Atleast in my neck of the woods. Face  it's alot easier to throw a bag of corn out and hang a tree stand rather than burn up boot leather scouting reading sign finding trails, funnels etc. knowing full well you may sit your scouted stand several times without seeing a single deer. Just a quick scan of the outhouse channels on TV or a glance through a modern bowhunting mag most articles are about best tractors, seed and fertizler to use rather than hunting. I'm not knocking either method but it has erroded what hunting is about atleast for me. I also understand that part of the problem is less and less of hunting land access so many are stuck to hunting 10 to 15 acres.  Hunting now adays is nothing like it was when I started 37 years ago. Most "hunters" I know locally now adays couldn't kill a deer if it was in their living room if they didn't opt to use any method legal.

Now through the years especially early on I fell for some of those gimmicks that would guarantee my trophy kill. I soon learned I'd been had and my old ways were if not equal were than better than using said gadget. So with that said I think alot of the gimmicks are just that gimmicks and don't increase anyones chance of anything other that the seller getting richer. The difference I went back to using my woodmanship while others go back to the catalog looking for another gadget!

Now adays I personally know where my line in the sand is and I fully understand alot of folks won't agree with it. I just feel that alot of folks are missing the whole point of hunting now adays.

[Autumnarcher]

I stumbled on to a great forum a couple months ago. Lots of good stuff on here. I'm gonna start on the Bush craft classes/practice this winter after huntin season is over. Gonna get my kids to do it as well, something we can do together, and then do a few outings to practice skills, so some stump shootin and enjoy some winter camping together.

  http://www.bushcraftusa.com/forum/index.php

[Ground Hunter]

Successful hunting is more about thinking than shooting.

[moleman]

I started this thing,so i better chime in.
I went fishing for your thoughts on this post and am very surprised and enlightened by the discussions that have come of it.After reading the discussions on here,I feel that as long as we, as a whole,continue to learn and then share what we learn with others we will all bennefit from that wisdom.
Furthermore I have found that the integrity and respect shown in this discussion toward each other,is what makes the Gang stand apart from others.
   

[YORNOC]

Originally posted by Autumnarcher:
I stumbled on to a great forum a couple months ago. Lots of good stuff on here. I'm gonna start on the Bush craft classes/practice this winter after huntin season is over. Gonna get my kids to do it as well, something we can do together, and then do a few outings to practice skills, so some stump shootin and enjoy some winter camping together.

   http://www.bushcraftusa.com/forum/index.php  

           

[benmmc]

I build websites for a living, so I look at screens and work with code all day long. Needless to say, I like getting away from technology. That's part of the reason I switched to traditional. I embrace technology every day because it puts food on my table, but when I'm hunting, I want simplicity.

Many of my friends and family want every advantage when hunting for reasons stated in this thread already. Less time to spend in the woods, etc. I am fine with that, because who am I to judge? It all comes down to the hunter's priorities. Do you simply want meat? Do you just want a big buck? Do you just want to be out there? Is the method by which you take your game just as important to you as the game itself, or are you a consequentialist (end justifies the means)?

To me, woodsmanship is about the skill of needing less. Not necessarily being out in the woods for days at a time, but a mentality that puts more emphasis on accomplishing a goal using skills rather than a piece of equipment.

[Mac11700]

Are woodsman skills being forgotten...sure they are...each and every day...but let's face facts for a moment...and have a reality check...

We all use modern equipment of 1 type or another...and damn few "have to " hunt to put our only food we get on the table...Sure...it's nice to romanticize about not needing all of the gadgets we use...but the fact of life is we all don't have the time to go without them.Most of us work for a living..families to raise..bills to pay...and our free time is a precious commodity..

I could use a compass instead of having a satellite image and walk all over looking for a likely place to hunt...or I can simply pull up my stored maps and go hunt...

I could opt for a primitive bow too...shooting stone points too...if I wanted...but I much prefer my new bows with it's fast flight string shooting aluminum arrows...Just as I could wear non gortex items and stay wet all the time...but I don't...and won't...

Do I know how to trap and track game...sure I do...and this is something we need to teach...just as using a compass...or starting a fire by hand...but...don't confuse using the technology of the day in one thing...then lament about it in another...cause that isn't right...We each have to decide what and when we are going to use all of the modern equipment...Much of it does allow us to hunt longer...smarter...easier...but that doesn't make us better woodsman...it just allows us more time to do it..without having to struggle to stay warm..not get lost..stay dry..shoot better...We still have to teach the basics to those who don't know them...but...modern equipment makes things easier...and I for one wouldn't give them up to go back 100 years and all the hassle of that era..

Mac

[fmscan]

Moleman, Understand your point, however I do think that modern man has some real demands on his time, kids, wife, job - sometimes you have to cut corners in order to keep all the balls in the air. I use a GPS that does not mean I can't use a compass. I enjoy the extra features like how far from home as the crow flys. I use a pop up blind and that doesn't mean I can't build a natural blind. Just save time. Same with carbon vs wood arrows, they last longer and save time. My shots are 20yds or less so the tech. of carbon gives no extra value. Just saves time. Not an excuse but modern man has sooo many demands on his time. I DO respect people who do anything the old way however. I just hate to see us split hairs on things like longbow vs rec, treestand vs ground hunters, carbon vs wood, self bow vs laminated...

[Jake Diebolt]

It depends on what you classify woodcraft or technology, I suppose. 500 - 1000 years ago no one west of China had ever seen or heard of a compass...now compasses are considered woodcraft. No one had topo maps, that's for sure - not until about 200 years ago, if I remember correctly. How did people manage???. Once upon a time everyone used spears to kill their prey - then along came atl-atls, then bows. Think about it: at one time in history the bow was the pinnacle of high technology, the ultimate game-changer for hunters and warriors alike.

Technology externalizes human skills. Like with bows: You shoot 'traditional', and all the aiming an pulling and release is up to you. If you go to a compound, the weight gets let off a little bit. The sights diminish your involvement in the aiming process. The mechanical release means you never have to worry about plucking a string. But the bow itself externalizes most of the functions of a spear - which externalizes killing force from your own body!

I think we should all attempt to duplicate some kind of 'old' skill, if only so that we're not out of luck if/when that technology fails. But we have to remember that technology is everywhere - it doesn't have to be electronic to be technology. all kinds of navigational skills have been lost as the technology used in that skill faded and was replaced by something else. The danger now is that so many of the instruments we use to 'survive' are comparably fragile. Obviously we need to have backup skills - and robust technology - to make up for it when the batteries die or the GPS gets dropped in a river.

[getstonedprimitivebowhunt]

Sometimes ..I'm scared where Trad. bowhunting is going !

[SELFBOW19953]

I agree with Mark Baker, in that it depends on where you live.  If you hunt in very remote areas, you need different skills than when you hunt in the more urban areas. If you hunt in an area where you can hear highway traffic, people talking, dogs barking, a compass and topo map are not necessary.  The same isn't true if you hunt where you hear no man made sounds.  If you go to an area that you are totally unfamiliar with, the best map and greatest skills with a compass are useless.  You have to have knowledge of where you are and what you're looking at to successfully use your map & compass or GPS.  A GPS doesn't always show you the hills, valleys, creeks, swamps that you have to navigate.

[Autumnarcher]

Great discussion, certainly thought provoking.
Woodsmanship- just what skills are considered woodsmanship skills, and where that line grays as to what traditonal skills are, and where technology intercedes will be as much subject to debate as what traditional archery is or isn't.

I'll use myself for an example. I like learning stuff. A new way to do this or that, new to me anyway. Dosent matter if its an old died in the wool skill, or something new and cutting edge. (Crossbows excluded lol).

I hunt with a longbow. No, its not an English longbow crafted from yew, its a modern R/D longbow. I shoot wood arrows, cuz I like 'em.
Traditonal enough for me anyway, and thats all that really matters. Still gotta put 'em where I'm lookin.

Now when I go afield, I'll admit I'm a it of a gear jumkie, probably carry too much crap with me that in most cases just rides along to weight my fanny pack down.

Now when I went on our long elk hunt this fall, I spent a lot of time, and hard earned money researching and getting top quality gear. Light weight tents, bags,packs, etc. GPS,SPOT locator etc. Same with the clothes we wore.

One camp was a canvas tent with a woodstove, the other a lightweight bivy tent. Nothing in my pack would do a thing to put me on the elk, other than maybe the boots on my feet.

We carried game calls, quality binoculars,topo maps and a compass. We filtered our water, or added purification drops to it. Sure we could boil it, but that is time taken that could be better spent huntin. Coulda just drank outta the creek, but the time spent crappin our brains out would cut into our huntin plenty too.

We started our fires with our fire striker and a knife, with either tinder we colelcted in our travels, or a cotton ball and vaseline.

We slept on packable air mattresses. Sure we coulds cut pine boughs, but Ireally dont think thats a responsible means of using such a beautiful wilderness unless it was necessary.

So when it comes to woodsmanship skills, both in hunting and in camp, there is room enough for a little of everything.

Now with all that, I enjoy getting out and practicing skills from days past. Challenging myself to improvise tools or things necessary.

Spending more time watching and learning the habits of the animals around me. Learning the clues they provide. Trying to identify every track, or scat we find. Using all of our senses to help us find game.

Woodsmanship is a learning process that never ends. You'll never know it all.

For those guys who are big into self bows and self arrows, the very basic and primitive side of traditonal archery, I commend you. That is a inspiring discipline for sure.

For the most of us, we weave a path across and back again of that line of a modern era, and an era of days past. Is it really a line of black and white, or with a large band of grey in the middle?

While I use high-tech backcountry camping gear, I also have made a point to learn and master enoughbasic skills that if my modern stuff were to fail me I would not likely put myself in a threatening situation.

Getting in the woods and backcountry of our country is a blessing, whether it be 100 yds or 100 miles from the truck. Soak it all in, and learn much as you can.

[Autumnarcher]