New to traditional, advice?

[Iowabowhunter]

I am buying a 64 in. 55 lb longbow from a traditional shop in Des Moines. I hunt with my compound now, but had a blast shooting my wife's uncles homemade stickbow. I have heard conflicting answers about arrow choice, I am trying to decide from Grizzlystik Safari carbon arrows, and some bamboo wooden shafts from the traditional shop. I am thinking of going with the Grizzlystiks for a little while to yet my form down and not have to worry about tuning a wooden arrow, but I will eventually move to the bamboo shafts after I become confident enough in my traditional shooting. I am not bad, but can only consistenly shoot to 10 yards at this point. I have shot my compund religiously for about 5 years, and am extremely accurate, getting multiple 300 60x scores on a 5 spot in some tourneys. It is important to me to be as accurate as I can be, and am going to purchase all of the traditional shooting books I can fins, with importance placed on the instinctive style. I want to learn to spot and stalk, as tree stands are getting ridiculously expensive. I look forward to harvesting some animals with my longbow next year, and may even sell my compound eventually. Any advice or recommendations will be greatly appreciated!

[Bernie B.]

Welcome to the wonderful world of traditional bows.  It sounds like you have a lot of enthusiasm and really want to do well.  If I was switching from a compound to a longbow, I wouldn't start with a 55 lb. bow.  Forty five is plenty heavy for anything Iowa has to offer.  If you already have the bow, continue close shooting, and not too many arrows at a time.  You don't want to develop bad habits.  Good luck with your new venture!

Bernie Bjorklund

NC Iowa/SW Wisconsin

[Oregon Okie]

Use the search function on here and kiss about 100 hours of your life away to all the info available.      
I would agree to go with the carbons so you are pretty sure that any issues showing up are from form etc rather than shaft variability. Don't know how many guys are shooting bamboo shafts but lots of wood shooters on here.
Alot of it is trial and error... I started with a glove, now shoot a tab. Tried 3-under but went back to split finger. Draw length fluctuated from 28-31 as my form and muscle memory changed and developed... anchor points changed etc. It's a fun process and it's all fun so enjoy.

I hope you are not trying to shoot a longbow with the exact same form that you did with your compound.  There are things that can be done with trad bows that the compound people don't think of.  I am sure you probably checked out the utubes of Byron Ferguson and Howard Hill on the web. Don't try to reinvent the wheel that the masters before you have perfected, follow their lead for ideas. It is always good to develop the correct form for your bow before you worry about accuracy, even then it is best to work on the parts of the form one part of the form at a time.
I am always amazed how good that first cedar arrow flies in this one  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFqjNKC72dA&feature=related

[steadman]

HAVE FUN!!!!  

[gringol]

Carbon to start doesn't sound like a bad idea.  But the natural stuff is so cool.  There's a woman here in FL that shot bamboo arrows in our August shoot.  All I can say is wow.  She out-shot a lot of carbon shooters by a mile.  It's hard to believe that a lumpy bamboo shoot can fly straighter than a 21st century carbon shaft.  In trad shooting, the archer is the weak link in the chain.  That's what's so fun.

[30coupe]

Welcome aboard. I agree with Bernie, 55 pounds is pretty heavy when making the switch. It can lead to lots of form issues. The bow I shoot most often is my 46# Kanati, and it will kill anything in Iowa or just about anywhere else in these United States.

You don't mention just what "longbow" you are looking at, but there is a vast difference within that category as well. My Kanati is technically a hybrid. It's a 58" forward handle reflex/deflex bow with trapped limbs and a grip similar to what you are used to on your compound (I speak bow, so if you need a translation do a search here). Since the string doesn't contact the limbs when it's braced, it is still more or less a longbow. My Mahaska is a mild r/d 62" bow that braces with the traditional D shaped profile, and it has a locator grip (much straighter than you are used to). It is much more like a traditional longbow, but since the limbs are flat in cross section, I suppose it is technically a flatbow, though flatbows do have wider limbs than this bow. I have a Northern Mist Shelton coming soon. It is a 66" Hill style longbow with string follow limbs and a straight grip (much different than you are accustomed to). It to will have the D profile, but it is not a traditional D shaped longbow since the cross section of the limb is flat on the belly and back (belly=toward the shooter/back=away). The "true" longbow is the English style which has a D shaped profile and a D shaped cross section and which flexes through the entire length (think Robin Hood here). That is a brief attempt at explaining the differences in longbows.

Each of these "longbows" are shot somewhat differently and may be shot radically differently than a compound as Pavan pointed out. Learn as much as you can before you buy. I am surprised that a traditional shop would not advise you to start with a much lighter weight than 55 pounds. Remember, with your compound at full draw you will be holding MUCH less weight than that. It can lead to poor form, frustration, and worst of all a return to wheels!

Anyway, glad to have you here. Have fun! This is the greatest forum on the net, bar none.

[Altiman94]

Welcome aboard and to traditional archery. It's a journey..that's for sure.  Remember to stick with it, even when your freezer starts to get empty and you are really wishing for those wheels and sights when that deer is standing at 35 yards broadside.  

As far as arrow selection, I like carbons for durability, but usually hunt with aluminums b/c of the extra weight I can get.

Lean on this forum for info.  Use the search and don't be afraid to ask questions.  There are guys here who are more knowledgable than you can ever imagine.  

Most importantly, have fun.  It's a blast watching the arrow fly from your bow with only a stick and a string.

[Plumber]

I would go carbon an drop ypur bow weight atleast 5 lbs.

[Iowabowhunter]

Thanks guys, keep em coming! Ya I have noticed that the form is incredibly different! My semi-tutor/ instructor has me practicing my form by keeping my eyes closed, drawing my bow without releasing, correcting my form. I first practiced with a glove but soon switched to a tab, I feel like I have a better feel of the string with the tab, I use 1 up and 2 under grip on the string, 3 under felt weird to me for some reason. My tutor (Tom) has me trying to develop a consistent anchor point with the cock feather just barely touching the tip of my nose, with my 1st knuckle of my thumb on my cheekbone and middle finger on the corner of my mouth.  I'm well versed with back tension from my compound shooting, so Tom said I naturally had the push/pull method of release down pretty well. Tom recommended that I move to a lower weight bow as well, but I can comfortably hold the bow back for 10-15 seconds before I start to get a little shaky haha. Tom said he might let me start actually releasing arrows this week so I am excited for that!

[Iowabowhunter]

I'm not 100% sure which style of longbow it is, it isn't a stickbow as it has laminated wood in there. I will find out tonight and let you guys know. The grizzlystik arrows r incredibly expensive, but also extremely heavy and look almost footed and the tip of the arrow is thicker than the fletched part of the shaft. the safari arrows are rated for 45-55 lb draw weights, and after speaking with Tom tonight may go with a spine heavier but still made by Grizzlystik, their stiffest spine arrows can be over 1000 grains, which I know will slow down the arrow quite a bit, but the EFOC is what I'm looking for! I have a Mathews z7 compound and while most of my hunting buddies are speed freaks (worthless imo because their bows are incredibly loud shooting 300 grain darts) I shoot the Easton FMJ arrows tipped with 125 grain broadheads, so even for a compound it is relatively quiet, although nothing compared to the longbow! I often remind my friends that the speed of their fastest bow is still under 400 fps while the speed of sound is over 1100 fps, but alas they watch all of the "pro" hunters on tv and tryo emulate them for some stupid reason. I prefer to come to my own educated opinion n choose to take the path that I deem as the "best"...I am incredibly excited to practice with my read gear, as I have easily shot a hundred arrows thru my compound, and it seems so regimented, I'm ready for some fun when I shoot! Not that compound isn't, but I'm ready for a challenge

[Iowabowhunter]

A hundred thousand* thru my compound

[30coupe]

Well, you will certainly get a challenge.      

What bow are you holding back for 10-15 seconds? Is Tom tutoring you with the bow you are thinking of buying? If so, you will know more once you start actually shooting. I shoot blind bale occasionally when I want to work on some aspect of my form. Get close enough to touch the bale then draw, anchor and release the arrow all with your eyes closed. Hitting the target is NOT the goal, just feeling the form. Sounds like Tom has you on the right track. It really helps to have someone to actually watch your form and help you hone it.

Grizzlies are way out of the price range of a retired teacher (me). I shoot Beman ICS Bowhunter 500s when I shoot carbon. They are cheap and tough and I can get over 20% FOC with them. A lot depends on whether the bow is cut before center, to center or past center and how much when it comes to tuning an arrow to fit. Lots of longbows are not cut to center, so tuning requires a weaker spine than one might think for the poundage of the bow.

My Kanati is cut to center, so it is pretty forgiving of spine. I shoot the same arrows through it that I do through my Mahaska, even though the Mahaska is 9 pounds heavier. It's not quite cut to center, so the arrows have to bend a bit more.

Depending on what spine you have and how much you want to load the front, your Easton FMJs might work with a 55 pound longbow that is cut to center.

I assume you are near Des Moines, since that is where you are dealing. I'm about as far north of there as I can get and still be in Iowa, about 13 miles to Minnesota from here. Nice to see another Iowan join the ranks! If you ever get up this way, give me a shout and we'll fling some arras!

[Iowabowhunter]

He has me practice my form with the bow I am going to buy. It isn't a mass produced bow, another bowyer built the bow and gave it to Tom to sell.  I go fly fishing up in northeast Iowa, try to get up there a couple times a year, so I will definitely get whole of you next time I head up there!

[Stick n' String]

As a newbie, I would strongly suggest considering draw weight very carefully. The biggest mistake most people make when making the switch from a compound to a stick bow is buying altogether too much bow. I routinely shot 75 pound compound bows back in the days of 50% let-off but could not shoot a 55 pound longbow accurately. "fighting" your bow will encourage all sorts of bad habits and will never allow you to develop your form correctly. This is also a reason many folks switch back to compounds, incidentally. I don't know you. Perhaps you are built like a gorilla and could easily handle an eighty pound recurve like I handle 45. I would meet with a qualified bowyer, draw a number of bows and make a decision based upon what feels comfortable to you. For me, that was 45 pounds shooting straight wrist (recurve) and 50 shooting with a low wrist grip (longbow).

Second, you may very well want to reconsider the Grizzly Stick Safaris, IMO. Garrett Schlief from Alaska Bowhunting Supply recently sent me a test pack of their new Momentum EFOC shafts and I found them very impressive. They use a Nano Carbon weave that is a bit lighter overall, but still taper and allow you to place a heavy broad head up front to maximize FOC. Carbons are certainly a good place to start.

Good luck and enjoy the ride.

[Altiman94]

I hunt with a 50 lb hoyt buffalo.  I wish it were 45 since hoyts usually register a few lbs heavier than marked.  My old Bob Lee was 47# and like mentioned above...plenty for white tails in IA.

[30coupe]

Originally posted by Iowabowhunter:
He has me practice my form with the bow I am going to buy. It isn't a mass produced bow, another bowyer built the bow and gave it to Tom to sell.  I go fly fishing up in northeast Iowa, try to get up there a couple times a year, so I will definitely get whole of you next time I head up there!

Sounds good to me. I fly fish too, so we could do both!

[Ground Hunter]

There is considerable information in Conrads book "The Traditional Bowhunter's Handbook."  A good starting place for a "traditional" library.

Everyone has their own particulars to their proper anchor, since everyone's face is a different shape. For most the middle finger somewhere around the corner of the mouth works about best, but there again the particulars will vary from person to person.

[Iowabowhunter]

30Coupe-my dad taught me to tie my own flies when I was younger, and it is a great hobby in the "off season!". I was looking at some pics on the website here, and I believe that the longbow I am putting $ down on is a hybrid mild reflex/deflex design. I'm not sure which type of grip it has, I just know that it is comfortable! I have been thinking about stripping the fletching off of one of my compound arrows and putting some feathers on it, just to see how it would fly. It is an Easton Axis FMJ, with 125 grain heads it weighs 515 grains. They are a very tough arrow, I am just concerned that it may be over spined on the 55# longbow...any tips?