Arrows - This worked out really well

[eagle24]

I have finally got the arrow setups that I have been searching for.  I have been all over the place trying to find the "right" arrows to shoot from 2 ACS-CX bows (41#&45#).  I started a thread a few days ago about the chrono results of one of my CX's and a friends Turkey Creek bow.  Shawn Leonard posted a reply (that I agree with) stating basically that if 2 equally efficient bows are compared, they should shoot the same gr per lb arrow at the same speed.  I took my bows and arrows to a local indoor range with chrono and did some further testing.  Here is what I found.

41# bow:
415gr axis 500 (10.13 gr/lb)=195fps avg.
460gr MFX Classic 500 (11.22 gr/lb)=184fps avg.

45# bow:
460gr MFX Classic (10.23 gr/lb)=196fps avg.
500gr CX Her 150 (11.12 gr/lb)=184fps. avg.

The arrows fly great from both bows bare shaft, fletched, and with broadheads.  I can shoot the lighter arrows for 3-d and switch to the heavier arrows about a month before the season starts for my hunting setups.  Both bows cast so close to the same that I can shoot either one without any adjustment.  I can also shoot Maxima 150's from the 41# bow and the axis 500's from the 45# bow for an approximate 9 gr/lb weight.  I have'nt chrono'd them but I bet they will be around 206fps.

[hockeyref]

Eagle,
I have to ask what advantage do you get from switching between the different arrows? The 40 grains of arrow weight and ~11 fps difference is negligible at normal hunting distances - and probably for 3d distances also. You are right around the 10 grains\\pound of draw wt standard so you aren't shooting light stuff chasing speed and trajectory... It looks like you wanted to match up the trajectory of the two bows?

I didn't look at the differences in shafts that you specified so you may be looking at fat shaft line cutting for 3d vs skinny shaft for better penetration in hunting....

Seems to me it would be simpler to pick one the arrow at flies well out of both bows and go with it.... You don't have to keep track of four different arrows with similar performance...

Steve

[pseman]

That is pretty impressive speed and KE. I am thinking of getting a longbow in the near future and results like this make me think about going with a lighter draw weight(40-45#). Do you have to front load the carbon arrows a lot to get them to fly good at that draw wt?

Maybe I could try the ACS at Tannehill??????

Mark

[eagle24]

Steve,
If I shoot the same arrow from both bows there is a little necessary adjustment for the trajectory.  Really, I was after a setup for each bow which would afford me a "backup bow" that shot the same as my hunting bow.  I would however disagree that 11fps is insignificant.  I think it is significant both in 3d and hunting.  You are correct that 2 of the 3 arrows are thin shafts and that is somewhat a disadvantage in tournament shooting, but I'm willing to live with it.  I'm very happy with the arrow flight with all the arrows from both bows.  Broadheads with wet feathers fly good in any combo.

Mark,
I don't have any front load weight on any of the arrows.  Everything has 125gr up front and I used 125gr stingers for all my broadhead testing.  I will have both bows with me at Tannehill and would love for you to shoot them.

Greg

[hockeyref]

Eagle... Just basing my opinion on my personal experience (bias)..... My Howatt recurve measures 67# @31", the Stewart long bow is 64#. Same arrow (~650 grain douglas fir) shot from each - Howatt 187fps, Stewart 176 fps... I can switch between the two without issue out to ~30 yards. Maybe it's just the years of shooting these two bows have ingrained the minor arc differences?

I don't know todays world of 3d as I haven't shot an actual scored 3d round since probably 1993. I guess if you're shooting at the rings and they keep making them smaller or adding more then the variation could be an issue. In my opinion, the difference just doesn't matter in a hunting situation. I do occasionally shoot on my clubs 3d targets but I rove the course. We don't run matches at this point and we have several targets out at all times for members to shoot so I don't have any set stakes that I shoot from. I'll shoot one arrow from several several different distances and angles at the same target. I look at it as "hunting target practice" and ignore scoring rings in favour of hunting shot type placements. One of the reasons I quit shooting 3d way back when.... I saw it potentially ingraining less than optimal shot placement on anything except a perfect broadside shot.

[eagle24]

Steve,
I understand your thinking.  I feel the same way about 3-d tournaments.  If you shoot a tournament where they allow binoculars, IMO it becomes closer to dot shooting than a 3-d tournament.  I usually score a few 12's but they normally aren't the ones I could see and aimed for.  I guess I'm thinking if the bows cast the same I'm making it easier on myself and taking one issue out of the equation of being able to shoot either bow equally well.  Out to 18 or so yards, I don't think it makes any significant difference.  At 25 yards I can tell a difference though.

[hockeyref]

Eagle....
Definitely makes things easier if the bows cast is similar. As you get further out, the differences in the arrows will start to show even if the initial velocity was the same. Like you've realized, the cast will be similar if the GPP between the two bow\\arrow combos are similar - as long as you aren't comparing say a carbon & foam core limbed recurve to a yew self bow.

When I first grab one of these two bows I'll launch one or two arrows from 50 or 60 yards at a leaf or something like that. Usually get within a foot or so on the first shot and closer on the second. Maybe that "recalibrates" the fire control center of my brain. I've been shooting these same two bows for 15 - 20 years now and you could say I "know their trajectory". I probably am simply used to the slight differences between them and don't think about it anymore.

The question is how well my next bow will fit in as I'm looking to drop down to about 53#. It may be easier to find suitable arrow wood since I now use 600-800 grain raw shafts spined 75-80#....HA HA!

[Orion]

Aren't the ACS bows cut to center, or even past center?  That being the case, you should be able to get a wide range of shafts to shoot out of either bow as long as they're overspined.  Or, stated another way, just about any arrow that shoots out of one of those bows will also shoot well out of the other.  A good position to be in.

[Guru]

Impressive #'s I'd have to see for myself to believe....is that with a shooting machine and a release?

[eagle24]

Curt,
That was shooting fingers (Damascus Glove).  One important caveat, I draw a full 29" so I should probably have stated the draw weights as 44# & 48#.  Shot 3 arrows for each avg.  I did shoot through a different chrono last weekend with the 41# bow, 435gr = 191fps 330gr = 206fps.  I tried to hold the same form as I do when I shoot and not overdraw the bow.  One of my bows came from O.L. the other from A&H, they are pretty doggone consistent as far as efficiency.  If you ever see one near a chronograph, see for yourself.  I would expect it to be pretty close with any of them.

Orion,
The heavier bow will shoot all three arrows, the lighter bow needs more weight up front with the CX heritage 150.

[JC]

Curt, I know Greg and he's not one to exaggerate...course that extra draw length makes a world of difference and that boy has arms practically dragging the ground.

Did I mention I got on A&H's list after shooting his wood riser 3pc ACS cx at my place? What sweet bow.

[Shawn Leonard]

Yup the draw length also reduces the grians per pound, so it is closer to 9gpp. and 10 gpp. which sounds much more realistic. those turkey creeks are some great performers. Shawn

[Guru]

Well that's impressive even for 29" !  Didn't mean to come off as calling you a liar bud,wasn't my intention at all. Sorry if it sounded that way         But there's a lot of "false #'s"  in cyber space.

Sounds like a couple winners there!!

[eagle24]

Curt,
No problem!  My intent with this post was more about what I had done in matching up the two bows so that they shot near the same.  I was'nt trying to wow anyone with speed #'s.  I probably would have never started this chrono mess had I not been concerned about the energy I am delivering with these lighter draw weight bows.  Then Shawn Leonard points out that bows equally efficient should cast the same gr/lb arrow at similar speeds and here I go to test that through the chrono.  Anyway no offense taken Guru!  It will be what it will be from a treestand in November.