where do you draw the line?

[instinctivebowman]

elknuts, tradgangers arnt sugar coaters they tell it like it is dont they. Gotta love em

peace, and im officailly cooling my jetts

over and out

jeremy

[nd chickenman]

don't shoot at the critters you think you can hit, shoot at the ones you KNOW you cant miss!

[Ground Hunter]

I do not think that this is as much an ability issue as it is a maturity issue.  In many respects.... $$$$$$$$$$

[Sixby]

Jeremy, One thing is for sure my friend. You are welcome at my camp anytime and someday I would be proud to build a bow for you. I love the way you recieved what was said to you.

God bless you , Steve

[instinctivebowman]

Originally posted by Sixby:
Jeremy, One thing is for sure my friend. You are welcome at my camp anytime and someday I would be proud to build a bow for you. I love the way you recieved what was said to you.

God bless you , Steve

thanks steve, your a good man

I never draw a line, they are always crooked. that is, I really don't know what I can do until I have tried a couple of shots on any given day.  Sure I can hit a deer target on flat ground out to thirty yards most of the time, but a really nervous deer at 15 yards, when I am off position is a lot tougher for a ground hunter.  I blew such a shot this year an hour after nearly taking the head off of a pheasant flying at about 50 yards this year. Defining lines are tough to predict on live creatures.

[Mudd]

As long as arrows travel at speeds slower than sound, anything can happen, even on the "gimme" shots.

A wound is a horrible thing, they do happen no matter the weapon used.

The only way to 100 percent assure that it won't happen is... don't loose your arrow!

If there's any doubt, don't shoot.

You can only control what you do but nothing that the critter your hunting does. We all like to think we know what it's going to do based on the best information we have but in truth we are just kidding ourselves and making a "best guess".

I quit believing in "gimmes" and watch for the highest percentage for success shots then decide whether to take it or not.

Needless to say... I don't often drop the string.

I wouldn't dream of trying to tell someone else when to shoot or not to shoot.

It's not what you are willing to do when anyone is watching but what you'd do if no one were looking that defines your ethics.(IMHO)

God bless,Mudd

[Bowwild]

Deciding what shot to take or not is one of the most personal decisions in bowhunting.  

I think a person can adopt tips from others about form, tuning, and practice strategies. I don't think one can borrow another person's ethic.  Ethics become yours the instant you decide to be guided by them.  I can't say I'll shoot this or that distance because someone else does or doesn't.

I think when one decides to shoot at a live animal the shot should be such a sure thing that the archer is absolutely shocked (and dismayed) if something goes wrong.

This off season I plan to use a practice technique I used for years with 'other' archery equipment. When practicing outdoors I'm going to try to make myself shoot more at 30 yards than at closer distances. I'll do this not because I desire to take 30 yard shots but to tighten my groups at 25 and under.

I fear I may get really bored doing this though, I like mixing it up.

Most of my practice to date has been at 20, 15, and 10 yards.

[joevan125]

2008 was the the last year i shot a wheel bow and 8 of the 9 deer i killed were all less than 15yds.

I have always wanted to shoot trad but never did until that last year when it was so easy making those short shots.

Its funny but rarely do i see deer that are to far away. When your sitting around 4-5 big white oaks and pent oaks the deer are going to come by you 99% of the time.

Joe Van

[Tom Leemans]

More often than not, there are very few clear shots past 20 yards where I hunt anyway. I'd rather test my patience and see if I can get them much closer anyway.

[Robhood23]

I guess I look at it different. I don't look at it as yardage but in my confidence if I can make the shot. I had a buddy come and help me get a buck out this year and he asked me how far that shot was and I said maybe 30 yards, he hit it with the range finder at 42 yards. I just knew I could make the shot and took it. I have also passed up deer at 10 yards where the shot didn't feel right. I guess it is a feeling rather than ranging.

[Bill Carlsen]

I was on a caribou hunt a number of years ago. I shot a nice caribou at about 35 yards or so. I was so excited the guide asked me to "take a walk" so he could finish skinning and capeing it. On my "walk" I had another caribou at 20 yards or less. I didn't take the shot because he was on full alert. My only point being is that distance is not the only factor one has to consider when taking a shot. I killed two deer that traveled only 10 yards or so after my arrow deflected off of unseen twigs. I've also wounded deer because they were too close for shooting out of a tree stand. I agree that it is important to know your limitations as far as shooting accuracy is concerned but that is only one variable.

[mmilinovich]

I agree that an archer should limit himself to shots that he's quite "certain" he'll make . . . even if he's occasionally wrong.

But, there's great irony surrounding this topic.  I wish FRED BEAR were around to voice his opinion on this matter.  It would be fascinating.

Read Mr. Bear's published "field notes" if you haven't already. He and his pals regularly shot at deer and other big game at 50 yards, 70 yards, and more.  They missed.  They wounded.  And they just keep flinging arrows. (No, these guys weren't shooting better equipment than we have AND they weren't better shots than many of us on this site.)

Please don't tell me that times have changed.  A shot that should not have been taken is a shot that should not have been taken, regardless of the era or the man shooting the bow.

I mention the above to provide perspective . . .

Mark

[Smithhammer]

Originally posted by mmilinovich:


Read Mr. Bear's published "field notes" if you haven't already. He and his pals regularly shot at deer and other big game at 50 yards, 70 yards, and more. They missed. They wounded. And they just keep flinging arrows. (No, these guys weren't shooting better equipment than we have AND they weren't better shots than many of us on this site.)

Please don't tell me that times have changed.  A shot that should not have been taken is a shot that should not have been taken, regardless of the era or the man shooting the bow.

I mention the above to provide perspective . . .

Mark

Agreed, and I had a similar reaction reading "Hunting the Hard Way." No disrespect to HH, but he was both an impressive marksman and he took a lot of ridiculously long shots and wounded a lot of animals as a result, at times requiring numerous arrows to finish the deed.

Yet any time this is pointed out, the immediate reaction is that, "those were different times." The truth is, they really weren't that different. I think it would be a good thing if we could get past the "sainthood" of some of these icons, and recognize that the truth, and possibly their motivations, were more complex than we typically acknowledge. But then again, I'm not a huge fan of hero worship in general (not to be confused with respect).

As to your question, Jeremy - I don't think you need to hear from others to know the answer. That decision can only come from you, and what you can live with.

[instinctivebowman]

Originally posted by Smithhammer:
 

Originally posted by mmilinovich:


Read Mr. Bear's published "field notes" if you haven't already. He and his pals regularly shot at deer and other big game at 50 yards, 70 yards, and more. They missed. They wounded. And they just keep flinging arrows. (No, these guys weren't shooting better equipment than we have AND they weren't better shots than many of us on this site.)

Please don't tell me that times have changed.  A shot that should not have been taken is a shot that should not have been taken, regardless of the era or the man shooting the bow.

I mention the above to provide perspective . . .

Mark

Agreed, and I had a similar reaction reading "Hunting the Hard Way." No disrespect to HH, but he was both an impressive marksman and he took a lot of ridiculously long shots and wounded a lot of animals as a result, at times requiring numerous arrows to finish the deed.

Yet any time this is pointed out, the immediate reaction is that, "those were different times." The truth is, they really weren't that different. I think it would be a good thing if we could get past the "sainthood" of some of these icons, and recognize that the truth, and possibly their motivations, were more complex than we typically acknowledge. But then again, I'm not a huge fan of hero worship in general.

As to your question, Jeremy - I don't think you need to hear from others to know the answer. That decision can only come from you, and what you can live with. [/b]

that was a really good post, both of them. I enjoy shooting at game at long range, 35-45 yards always have prob always will.  But im now changed and i realize its just not for me now. I know it decreases my chances greatly and the game doesnt deserve it. Look back at all the post. wow!!!!!! Poeple are as  passionate about this site as anything i have ever seen, pretty impressive. im sticking to 3d targets for now at that distance they dont move.
jeremy

[longbowman]

Jeremy,  one thing you will find is that the better shot you become the better chance you will have at getting an arrow in a deer.  The problem then becomes what happens after you release the arrow and what does the deer do.  When I was half as good a shot as I am now I had 7 straight years with 7 arrows released and 7 whitetails down.  A couple of yrs. ago I released 4 straight arrows at completely relaxed deer under 15 yds. and shaved hair off either the chest and back of three and doubled lunged the 4th.  Alot can happen after the release and it's our obligation to be the best we can and stick to our personal limits..you're on the right path my friend and keep working at it!

[joe ashton]

under perfect conditions I will 'consider' 25 yards, but prefer 20 and under.

Years ago I hunted with a guy who said things like "you can't track them if they are not bleeding so shot!!!"  I only hunted with ONE DAY, and never again.

[md126]

i think that robhood23, bill carlsen, mmilinovich, and smithhammer summed up my opinions on this thread.

i agree w/ their responses x2!!

also, regardless of what people think there is no substitute for hard work practice and confidence in anything we do, especially hunting..

[Altiman94]

I don't really 'judge' the yardage with my trad bow with anything other than my mind.  If I feel like I can make it, I take the shot.

That said, that distance is really about 17-18 yards.  Anything beyond that and I'm not comfortable.  I try to have all my set ups allow for a 10-15 yard shot to stay well within my comfort zone.

[dragonheart]

Howard Hill acknowledged that early on in his hunting with a longbow he took long shots.  He wrote about limiting his shots and how he would be more effective than taking longer shots at game.  I will find the exact passage in "Hunting the Hard Way" this evening.  

Today many traditional archer has lowered that distance and believes that longer shots are always "unethical".  We try to put a number to things and measure it and say, okay here is the standard of practice, the limit.  Ethics are what you do when no one is watching us.  

There is more "societal pressure" to be efficient in our taking of game.  A clean kill is the ideal of course.  Bowhunting by it nature is rarely ideal.  The outdoors are not a lab where one can control all variables to perfection.  Anyone that has hunted for anytime would acknowledge that fact.      

I recently read some writing by Gary Sentman in which he described wounding an elk, due to glancing off an unforseen branch.  A variable that he simply did not have control over.  He wrote about having to shoot multiple arrows at long distance in pursuit to get an arrow in the elk.  That is his ethics.  He could have just let the elk go off.  But he pursued, even with fading light and adapted to the situation at hand, running to the animal to get in position before darkness fell.  Making every effort to get another arrow in the animal.  

What attracts us to self-imposed limitations on our equipment or method in taking game?  When we no longer have any degree of uncertainty in shooting at game, then something about the adventure of hunting is lost.  We all have that with bowhunting.  We learn about ourselves, our abilities, our determination to see the hunt through with each adventure.  No matter how far the critter was from us.