where do you draw the line?

[wc kid]

If we call ourselves instinctive shooters then how do you judge distance. I cant tell how far a deer is 25-30 yards. I do know when a deer is close enough to shoot and when he isnt but I cant tell you how far he is away in yardage. Three years ago I shot a buck that I just knew that I could make the shot on. The shot was right on and I watch that deer die. He ran about 10yds and then walk another 70 and fell over. I hit that deer right were I was looking. My buddy said that was a long shot and I said it wasnt that far. He hunts with the wheels so he ranged it at 36 yards. I just felt comfortable with that shot at that time so I took it.

[bogeyrider63]

when in doubt let them walk.

[Ragnarok Forge]

I always love to see people get mad and try to force their ethics onto others which is both silly and in it's own way unethical.   You have every right to determine what is ethical for you.  You have no right to judge others based on your ethics.   I have very firm opinions on ethics and hunt with people of like ethics.  That doesn't mean I can push others around to meet my ethical standards.  

  I passed on four does with young early season this year.  Lots of folks would have shot them.   A few trad archers I know would have and said so.  It violated my ethics to do so and I didn't.  Normally I will shoot to 25 yards at deer and 35 at elk.   In open country if I know I can make the shot I would extend that to 35 and 45 yards.   On the other hand I have passed on 20 yard shots at elk since I did not feel I could make the shot cleanly in that situation.  Every situation and every hunters skills are different.   For someone who hunts from tree stands you will hear a different story than from an open ground desert hunter.  

So while I support everyones right to their ethics and opinions We all need to remember they are just that.   Are the Inuit unethical when they spear kill a sleeping walrus or gut shoot and track an animal until it dies?  They have been doing these things for millenia.   For them it is a way of life and is within their ethical behavior patterns.  How about whale hunting.  Inuit do it to live yet you and I cannot.  Ethics are far more complex than one or two peoples opinions.

[jrbows]

Kind of hard to answer,I don't shoot known yardage for practice and don't try to guess yardage on an unfamiliar course, I try to let things fall into place and let the arrow go. If it looks right under hunting circumstances I take the shot, if it doesn't look right I wait until the shot develops or the animal leaves/or busts me,as far as the older guys go they had a business interest in hunting,I think you risk more when more is at risk,(hope that makes sense.)Does that make taking questionable shots alright? Certainly not,even if a lot of the practice at the time was on field archery courses that had some far distances,not 3D courses with "ethical hunting distances" unfortunately the respect for the animals didn't seem to be there at the time,and this type of thinking eventually led to the seasons, limits, and laws we have today,and thankfully so, or we may not have the animal populations that we do.Wait for your do-able shot to happen,unforeseen circumstances will sometimes bite you no matter how prepared you are,don't take anything for granted and be prepared for the worst,it will often happen.

[PaddyMac]

2x on Mudd's. I used the word "gimmee" in one of my posts on here early this fall regarding coyotes and I think I jinxed myself so bad I have only been on full draw on two grouse since. Never again.

But that said, I feel comfortable at 20 yards with a clear shot but I've passed on closer shots because of the chance of hitting brush or branches or the alignment was bad. Under ideal conditions I would take a 25 yard shot, but nothing longer I don't think.  But I do shoot at my target regularly at 40+ yards and not too pathetically. I wouldn't pass on a 40 yard shot on a 3D course.

I do shoot long at quail though, figuring it's almost always either a kill or a miss.

I had a fork mulie buck jump string on me once in my training wheel days and I had that horrible green yuck on my feathers on the passed thru arrow. I was up all night tracking little tiny pin head drops of blood in tinder dry sagebrush with a gas lantern. Bad berries. Dark thoughts. Then all of a sudden there he was, about a mile away from where I shot him. I almost gave up not just bowhunting but all hunting after that. It took a long time to get over it. I don't want to feel that way again. So I try to be very careful.

[Stick n' String]

On deer and similarly sized animals, I keep all my shots 20 yards or under. Preferably well under that yardage, even though I am proficient in practice out to 30 yards. I would push the yardage a little if a shot at an elk-sized animal presented itself, but not much.

Incidentally, every animal I ever lost was my fault and those losses could have been prevented by simply being more prudent in terms of shot selection.

[reddogge]

Diamonback, I love that iron deer concept for those who think they can hit long yardages. For anyone who hasn't had the opportunity to shoot an iron deer it is quite the humbling experience, even at close range. Your mind plays tricks on you.

I personally don't take shots unless I feel they are a sure thing. I passed on two pigs this year at what I estimated at 30 yards. I asked myself "Can I hit a perpetually moving softball sized target at 30 yards?" and said "NO". I spooked them trying to close the gap. I can live with myself though.

[Bjorn]

The contest for me is not 'how far can I shoot' it is 'how close can I get'. Sometimes you can get very, very close.

[jsweka]

Hey Jeremy,

I just wanted to commend you on this thread.  When I saw your original post I knew you were gonna get a lot of flack from everyone and I really expected you to fire back in defense.  Instead, you took the comments like a man and obviously did some soul searching.  Your responses were great and not defensive in the least.  You took something that I fully expected to become an ugly debate and turned it into a positive discussion on shot ethics. You even went back and edited your original post.  Well done and you've definitely earned my respect.

           

John

[instinctivebowman]

Originally posted by jsweka:
Hey Jeremy,

I just wanted to commend you on this thread.  When I saw your original post I knew you were gonna get a lot of flack from everyone and I really expected you to fire back in defense.  Instead, you took the comments like a man and obviously did some soul searching.  Your responses were great and not defensive in the least.  You took something that I fully expected to become an ugly debate and turned it into a positive discussion on shot ethics. You even went back and edited your original post.  Well done and you've definitely earned my respect.

                       

John

many thanks,
jeremy

[Steve95]

Ethics is very interesting as most people hold others to higher standards than they really practice themselves. This all comes down to a decision each of has to make and live with.

[falconview]

Hunting seldom compares to practace even 3d, so I practice
At least 10 yard further than I will let myself shoot hunting
sort of aim small miss small so far this has worked well for me
but can be agonizing not taking a shot but less than tracking
a bad one

[lpcjon2]

I dont have a line I have ethics. I owe it to the animal.

[GreyGoose]

For me it's just about 15 yards for now, though it might go out by 2 or 3 with practice - if I find a single bow that contains the best features of the individual ones I shoot now.

[Biggie Hoffman]

I don't even think about how far it might be, and never consider to shoot or not shoot.

When a situation presents itself, I subconciously(sp) shoot or I don't. It's like I KNOW it's a good shot or not. I double lunged an antelope at 60 yards once, it was like there was no place else that arrow could go but right in the pocket. Never realized it was that far until afterwards, and I've passed up shots under 10 yards. Never hesitated on either instance but I can't explain either one to you.

[Over&Under]

Wounding is never an issue for me...you have to actually HIT the animal to wound it   :D  

Good thread...everyone is different.  I personally don't feel comfortable past 25 yds and even at 25 the shot has to feel right.  I much prefer 20 and under.

As with Biggie, I never really think about yardage, but rather how the shot feels...it just so happens that it starts to FEEL bad at about 25 yds  

[Red Tailed Hawk]

Originally posted by Bjorn:
The contest for me is not 'how far can I shoot' it is 'how close can I get'. Sometimes you can get very, very close.

x2

[Landshark160]

Originally posted by Biggie Hoffman:
I don't even think about how far it might be, and never consider to shoot or not shoot.

When a situation presents itself, I subconciously(sp) shoot or I don't. It's like I KNOW it's a good shot or not. I double lunged an antelope at 60 yards once, it was like there was no place else that arrow could go but right in the pocket. Never realized it was that far until afterwards, and I've passed up shots under 10 yards. Never hesitated on either instance but I can't explain either one to you.

[Otto]

There is no distance at which one can shoot and never miss.  

For those who haven't read my thread titled "A Huntin Story", I blew a shot on a nice 12 point back in Nov.  I shot the deer in the spine from a distance of 12 yds.  12 frickin yards.  I can shoot the pecker off a gnat at 12 yds.  But on this day I did not.  I eventually recovered the carcass 8 weeks later.

There is no distance at which one can shoot and never miss.  Every shot is its own beast.  To classify shots as "take" or "No take" based on yardage alone is false logic.  Shoot enough game and you will blow a shot inside your sacred yardage line.

Whatcha gonna do then???  Only shoot game within the length of your arrow??

[COLongbow]

Dang, this thread makes me want to stick to shooting targets and buy my steaks at the grocery store.