Bama vs. Hill

[khardrunner]

I've read some threads that addressed this topic to some degree, but I thought it would be useful to get concrete input from some of the guys who have shot them both. I'm currently saving for what will likely be one of the two of these brands as I feel the need to get another D-bow after giving up my Hill Tembo this spring.

I've shot Hills but never a Bama. So how much of a difference is there? I'm concerned mostly about smoothness and silence. Is there really $125 worth of difference in smoothness and silence when going with an Ekin hill vs. Steele's Bama? I've heard great things about the Bama's, but again how do they compare directly with the hills that I have shot so much of?

[bucksbuouy]

Ill go ahead and be the first knuckle head to say Ive never shot a Hill bow but I do own a Bama and the design and shaping of the handle and arrow shelf are much more ergonomic compared to what Ive seen of Hill bows. The grip is perfect and the arrow shelf is much more recessed and radiused than a Hill. As I said Ive never shot an actual Hill bow but I do own Hill style bows and the Bama shoots a lot straighter and much more consistently, which I attribute to the more comfortable grip and, for lack of a better word, buttery arrow shelf.

[mikebiz]

I've shot and owned both.  My first Semi-Longbow was an Ekin Hill "Sirocco" limited edition.  This bow is absolutely gorgeous.  Unfortunately, when I first bought it I couldn't even pull it.  

So I decided to hold onto the Hill and order a lightweight BamaBow.  Nate has a great reputation and makes a gorgeous looking and serious shooting longbow.  I had an Elite Classic T/D and it was excellent.  Shot great, very quiet, no thumping (with B-50).  Fit and finish was very high quality.  I only sold it because I went up in weight.  Now that "Sirocco" is right in my wheelhouse and shoots with authority.  Glad I didn't sell it.  I've also shot Miller Longbows and Pete George "Timberline" Longbows.  

Bottom line I don't think you can go wrong with either.  I would own another BamaBow if it was a true "Hill-style" American Semi-Longbow.  I just like the old style better.  But Nate's design is certainly comfortable and shoots great.  If $$ is an issue go to Nate with confidence.  If it isn't and you really want a Howard Hill Archery longbow, then go for it.

[khardrunner]

Bama isn't considered a true hill style? Is this because of the larger riser?

[Gordon Jabben]

The limbs are a little wider, locator grip, and more center shot than the Hill style.

[khardrunner]

What bows are true hills then?

Hill
Northern Mist
Miller
Sunset

[toddster]

I have many HIll Bows and one Bama bow.  The Hill bows are more of the classics straight limb or string follow bow, classic american longbow.  The Bama is considered a Hybrid longbow, being a reflex/deflex bow.  Both bows after tuning, and matching arrows are great shooting bows.  I just prefer the Hill style over any hybrid, but that is becasue I shoot more of the Hill method than just a straight arm longbow style,  but if just starting and getting into tradtional a Bama is a good bow.  By the way shot two deer with my bama this year to get it bloody.

[Shifting Shadow]

Never shot a Hill style bow. But my Bama was soo easy to shoot, it shocked me.

[khardrunner]

I was under the impression that the hunter was a d shaped bow so was in the hill style unlike the expedition which is the R/D.

[MTArrowLauncher]

Originally posted by khardrunner:
I was under the impression that the hunter was a d shaped bow so was in the hill style unlike the expedition which is the R/D.

Now i am no expert at all, but i have been looking at Bamas a ton and just ordered one, so with that said you are right. The hunter and nicer models of the hunter are D shaped and his other style is the Expidition and it is a R/D longbow.

[mikebiz]

Just being D-shaped when strung is not the only thing that makes a "Hill-style" American Semi-Longbow/American Flatbow.  There are mild, moderate and even radical reflex/deflex bows that brace in a true D-shape.  "Hill-style" brace to a D-shape and always have straight limbs.  They can be either backset, straight or string follow (bellyset) in profile.  

Though Nate's bows are American Semi-Longs/Flatbows, they are not built in the "Hill-style" because the limbs are slightly flatter and wider, not "deep-cored" and narrow like Hill-style limbs.  

Now I had a takedown Bama, so I can't really speak to the grip shape of one piece bows.  My grip was big because of the carbon fiber sleeve.  This is the only thing I did not like about the bow.  It just didn't fit my hand well. I think it was a reverse teardrop, being wider in the heel and narrowing toward the toe of the grip.  None of my Hill-style bows have a grip like that.  Most are moderate to very deep (up to 2.25").  Some are more oval in shape, while others are very narrow, almost rectangular or teardrop (wide at toe narrowing toward the heel).  From what I've seen this is what Howard's bows were like.

[mikebiz]

Originally posted by MTArrowLauncher:
 

Originally posted by khardrunner:
I was under the impression that the hunter was a d shaped bow so was in the hill style unlike the expedition which is the R/D.

Now i am no expert at all, but i have been looking at Bamas a ton and just ordered one, so with that said you are right. The hunter and nicer models of the hunter are D shaped and his other style is the Expidition and it is a R/D longbow. [/b]

Just so you know I'm not an expert either.  Let's clear that up.  I'm learning right along with the rest of us        

Yes, the Bama "Expedition" is an aggressive, forward-riser, reflex/deflex longbow.  It does not brace to a D-shape.  

But like I said in my previous post, bracing to a "D" alone does not make a longbow a "Hill-style" longbow.  There's more to it than that.  

And I'm pretty sure that Nate's Elite Classic has VERY SLIGHTLY reflexed limbs.  It's not straight limbed like a "Hill-style" longbow.  I believe the Hunter model is straight limbed.  Not sure about the Royal though.

[DannyBows]

I have 3 of Nate's D-Bows, one Expedition R/D and another on order. I've never shot a Hill so I can't give a comparision, but I love my Bamas.

Here's a review of a Bama Hunter from Rob D. He knows his longbows.

 http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=105083#000000

[mikebiz]

Ok so after reading this stuff again I think we are stumbling over nomenclature here.  I just read Rob D's thread about his Bama.  I remember reading it when it was originally posted as a matter of fact.  To quote Rob, "In essence, this is an AFL (American Flat Longbow) in the Howard Hill style."  I think here and in khardrunner's post that "in the Hill style" is more of an aesthetic term, referring to the way the bow looks, the D-shape.

Now I use the term "Hill-style" above to describe the way in which the bow is constructed.  The limb design, the riser shape, etc.  Yes, Nate's bows "look" like the bows that Howard Hill, John Schulz and Bob Swinehart (the MAN, by the way) shot.  But when you get close they are constructed quite differently.  Rob also said that his  Hunter showed just a shade of reflex to the limbs.  

Just to reiterate, Nate builds a wonderful bow, no matter what style or name we call it.

[khardrunner]

I'm certainly looking for the same style bow I grew up shooting, the AFL or hill style bow. In that sense I'm thinking D shape, straight limb and grip, long and slender, smooth as butter, silent, great cast and the like.

I'm not looking for a bow with wider, flatter limbs which I guess I would consider a flat bow. Nothing against them, that's just not the style I'm looking at right this moment.

As I said before, I don't know whether the Bama fits the former or later category here as I have never seen one in person and it is hard to tell from pics. It seems like they are wonderful bows, I just don't know how they will compare to my old Tembo.

All these darn terms... we need a trad archery dictionary, complete with pictures!

So I guess the question remains, how do the bama's shoot as compared to the hill I used to have?

[Rick Wiltshire]

FWIW - although I no longer have them, I have owned a Bama Hunter and a couple of Hill bows.

IF I were to order another one of either of these bows it would be a Hill bow.

Rick

[MTArrowLauncher]

i agree a dictionary is needed, with pitures  

i didnt mean the me not being an expert in a snotty way, just literally saying im not and dont claim to be.

whether its a hill style or noy i have no idea.lol. i just meant he has a R/D long bow but the hunter isnt one. but great thread, i always like learning from all you folks

[LimbLover]

I don't know, I've been in steady communication with Nate since 2009 and I'm fairly certain that the only model he makes that is not a straight-limbed longbow is the Expedition.

Why? Because we were talking about his creating the form for the Expi for quite some time.

The Hunter, Elite, and Royal are straight limbed longbows with varying options. If they have a shade of reflex it is microscopic and not worth the label.

The primary difference between the Hunter, Elite, and Royal is price and options. The Elite has clear glass and more wood options. The Royal has clear glass, extra laminations, and more options.

The Expedition is the R/D tag. Think of it that way. You can order an Expedition Hunter, Elite, or Royal.

FYI - Nate can make a true straight-gripped Hill style bow. I believe he shoots one himself. And he can cut the shelf anyway you want it cut.

Not knocking Hills. They are great bows and have the name and nostalgia associated. However, we don't need to pigeonhole. It seems silly to do so.

[mikebiz]

My Bama shot great and I'm sure it would measure up to any Hill-style with comparable draw weight.  Nate's bows are very popular with a bunch of guys, so they can tell you more.  Like I said I wouldn't hesitate to buy from Nate again.  Great service and product.  Hell of a nice guy too.

[khardrunner]

I figured from what I read of nate's work that he can do whatever for the grip so that wouldn't be an issue. Do they shoot like hill bows though, or more like a modern flat bow? It's not like I want to pidgenhole, I just want to know if it meets what I am specifically looking for this time.

Sure, I could just buy a hill, but I'm looking at other options as well and Bama seems to have some really good reviews.