Why are Trad Guys so hostile to other bows?

[donw]

thru the years, I've hunted with compound  bow, longbow, recurve bow, air rifles, and firearms of all kinds...(but never with black powder or crossbow. not because i don't like them, just because i never got around to getting a crossbow. i had a black powder .50 cal rifle at one time and it was stolen from me before i got to use it...)

i like 'em all.

i do believe they should be segregated in hunting seasons, though.

[primitivealltheway]

my point on it is get out and enjoy GOD'S great outdoors,family ,friends,or just by yourself ,me im never gonna give up hunting ,if something goes wrong and i cant shoot a bow,will do flinlock and pistol...

[Doc Nock]

So many good insights I can't begin to remember to comment on each...   :(   Old age and all that...    

First, I am deeply saddened by the types of things posted back a page or so about folks being sold a bow and a crock of BS to go along with the big "bill"...

I was a PT salesperson at a local big archery concession... I saw guys say and do things to sell a bow that turned my stomach. Years ago!

THAT...that attitude of "technology will make it insant success" is what kills us or will...not the choice of equipment.

It's been said eloquently here: The person, NOT the weapon. ATTITUDE...is everything.

We even get into pissin matches among ourselves on 2 blade, 3 blade, single bevel or not... blah, blah... y'know?    

I've shot all "fun" shoots, while a lot of you S'uthin boys shoot for competition and score. More power to you... I try stupid stuff on Foam and LEARN...NEVER to try it on live game!     So fun shoots are my cup...

I, too, have seen guys trying to shoot from the big boy stakes with sticks and can't hit squat..or as my buddy's brother pipes up, "Ya hit em in the motor" for a ham shot!

We all do it... long climbs, hot days, many shots, fatigue and we falter...

There are days I practice pull a bow in the woods and KNOW..."today is a 15 yrd shot only day!" I can just TELL!

Attitudes of most..."most" trad shooters are more conservative in MY findings...but then...let me contradict myself: In recent years, I go to popular shoots and have to go day or 2 earlier each year to find a camping spot...more and more people...

are that many more coming to Trad...or just come to trad events?

Things have changed!!! No freakin doubt! People at shoots DO NOT evidence the quality attitudes around the camp, respecting others "stuff", nor any of the qualities so engrained in shoots I first attended for 20 yrs! Last 5 yrs, things are really changing...

Why wouldn't they? We're drawing from a much larger cross-section of society.

Now were back to lee Vivian's comments... it's still NOT the equipment...but the individuals and their values, mores and attitudes!

Some folks get damned by "association", but the truth is that our "distinction", as trad being "different" is fast changing from what I see as a broader spectrum of folks showing up at some trad shoots would suggest!

Best we can do is to be quietly firm in our beliefs, share our thoughts and reasons why we do what we do, out of respect for each other, the landowner, and most of all, the animals we hunt!

People who evidence that are found in very camp, be it gun, bow or stick... Xbow guys too...but now that anyone can use them, I see /hear all the "but I can shoot 80 yards now!"

Sigh...    

Party time!   :(

[jim ratcliff]

well last summer i went to a 3d shoot(open to all not just traditional)my wife had her little parker buckshot compound and i had my longbow...people looked at me like i had three eyes or 4 ears or something..it was interesting to see how fast the new mechanical arrow launching devices will fling a arrow!But i was looked upon as having the plague or something...oh well!  

[Ground Hunter]

Its not what's in their hand - its what's in their heart.  Shoot what you want.  Respect the game and the law.  All the rest is nonsense.

[Rustic]

I shot a compound for several years, I dont have any negative feelings toward other bows. Its still hunting but for me, something was missing.
Going "Trad" filled a void in my life. I'm more spiritually connected to archery, my recurves and nature.

[ChuckC]

I actually wasn't aware that there is that much hostility, animosity or even concern. . .  I don't think there is frankly.
ChuckC

[Bow Bum]

Pretty decent thread. I really wanted trad. I like it better than the wheels. This year was my first year full trad. I killed, and then lost one that could have easily been taken with a wheel bow. It was a close shot. The 1.5 years of practice just had not been enough to execute a 15 yard shot. Needless to say I got the training wheels out after than. Not too sure if I'll ever go back or not.

I love to hunt, I have a high respect for the game, I have a general distaste for all the marketing and hype on "the other side". But in the case of lost deer on an easy shot....Its a personal decision that was not easy, but its the one I made.


I really like this site alot, and will probably lurk mostly.

I guess I'm a compound traditionalist...

B

[overbo]

Last 3D shoot I went to,by the 3rd target the 2 compound shooters broke out their tools to adjust their bows because I was shooting as good as them.As the round progressed they surpassed me in score but both were very complimentary on my ability to shoot well at the begining.
For me,
Staying focus on shooting 20+ targets is very hard to do but I'm more concerned w/ the 1st arro over any other I shoot.

[xtrema312]

This is a great site. I have always figured the majority of people here were very open to all hunting and hunters.  However, I have seen the type thing this post was started to address.  It can be at times blatant, but most many times underlying in posts I read and stuff I hear.  I am not talking about the stuff that is related to the site being trad only.  That is all good.  Often it is just some good-natured fun, and I do not think most would say a thing to someone about their choice of weapon or not want someone to get into hunting unless they were trad.  

People show their little prejudices without knowing it.  We all do it at times.  Things like calling compounds wheelie bows, or acting like it is the end of the world when gun season opens; not my favorite time of the fall, but everyone should have their opportunity to legally hunt the way they want without someone feeling like they are being somehow wronged by it.  I know I occasionally get a little ruffled by some gun hunters or the xbow thing, but I have no issue with any hunting method or weapon. I get the longest seasons and more than my share of hunting time and  game.

[2fletch]

I have belonged to clubs that were all traditional and some that were mixed. Although I enjoyed both I probably have more fun in the all traditional club.

Traditional and wheelies are like shotguns and rifles. They are not the same. You don't shoot skeet with a rifle and you don't shoot at deer 300 yards away with a shotgun. The problems occur when you treat them as the same. If you shoot traditional and you belong to a club where you're in the minority, you might find the targets set a little further than you'd like.

I was working at a tournament once where a wheelie shooter had (unknowingly to the rest of the range crew) had reset the stakes for traditional to where they were only a few feet from the wheelie stakes. One of the first persons that I ask about the course said that he had missed 12 out of the 20 3-D targets and that he would never shoot this course again. (As far as I know he never did.) The average score for traditional that day was about 50 points below the normal, and it took the fun out of shooting for many of the traditional participants. I'm sure that many of you have experienced this.

[tuscarawasbowman]

Originally posted by bawana bowman:
 

 Posted by me on PBS site 2 years ago:

What kind of information are Archery dealers giving people that are new to bowhunting?
Drove to a local WMA today after a call from my Nephew, needed help tracking a doe he shot early this morning. (He shoots compound and is becoming quite accomplished at taking game. I've Got nothing against it, that's how he chooses to hunt.)

After about 2 hours of tracking we found his doe and got her out to his truck.

When we arrived at the truck there were 2 hunters there taking an afternoon (Beer) break at the truck next to my Nephews. Both were sporting Brand new compounds complete with all the gizmos and gadgets. And the latest and greatest expandable broadheads.
Now for the sickening part..... Neither had ever shot their bows! Both bought them Friday, had dealer mount their sites and peep, slap on a quiver and nock point and they hit the woods Saturday before daylight.

Started talking with them about the effective range of their bows, and both agreed the dealer told them they were as accurate as a rifle out to 100 yards. Told them to just hold 1 of the 6 site pins on target and they couldn't miss, (as long as they used the right pin). Also went on to tell us how the dealer assured them each pin would be effective within a 10 yard range. I asked exactly what did that mean? They proceeded to explain to us how each pin would put the arrow inside a 6" circle for its set range. No need to site at the range, just set the pins equal distance apart inside the site and it's set.The 20 yard pin if held on target will hit within a 6" circle from 20 to 30 yards, the 30 will do the same out to 40 yards, and so forth. If we had 8 pins we would be good to 100 yards.

At this point my Nephew chose to head for the house to tend to his deer. I stayed behind a little longer to continue this enlightening conversation.
After another 15 minutes of these guys rewriting everything I have ever known about archery, I convinced them each to shoot at a sand pile a short distance away. Being the kind hearted person I am, I set one of their beer cans on the hill to shoot at. Told them the distance was 30 yards after walking it out and back to set the can.
They each took 2 shots..... closest only missed by 3 feet, 2 of the arrows were never found!
Finally convinced them to go and have someone teach them how to tune and shoot their bows before trying to hunt with them again this season. They thought maybe I was right about that.
As I was getting into my truck one of them said; "Maybe next year we'll be able to use a crossbow, no way I can miss with a red dot scope on my side!"

What kind of idiots are the so called outdoor shows and dollar hungry dealers turning loose in the woods with us?


I've been shooting Trad since I was 5 years old. 52 years now, was just called archery back then. Most all my friends in the 70's, 80's, and 90's  shot cable guns. I didn't care then and still don't care what they choose to shoot. As long as they are proficient with their weapon of choice.

But if you try to tell me my weapon is inferior, you better be willing to back up your words. I can put more arrows in to a kill zone faster than any cable guy, and in the past have out harvested them as far as ratio of kills to shots. And I don't have to waste time considering yardage of the shot being presented.

As long as others aren't like the idiots above, I don't care what they use. Just know how to use it, and let me do things my way. [/qb]

I respect your opinion but I think many of us forget that there was a time when Fiberglass recurves were the big new compound of it's day. I am certain that there were plenty of guys roaming the fields in the 60's with a brand new bow they had never shot that the dealer told them they "couldn't miss with" and the Nels Grumleys of the time thought those guys had no business being out their. There will always be irresponsible guys in the woods no matter what they are hunting with. Not limited to compounds.

[Burnsie]

Mortgage, kid in college, another kid with braces, long hours at work, family committments, kids sporting events..etc etc,  What someone else legally hunts with is about 128th on my list of things to worry about.

[rraming]

Originally posted by ChuckC:
I actually wasn't aware that there is that much hostility, animosity or even concern. . .  I don't think there is frankly.
ChuckC

I belong to two archery clubs, maybe 300 people in both, never had anyone say anything to me but have heard some traditional guys say stuff about compounds. Only thing a compound guy would do is ask questions and small talk with you, never hostile.

[PaddyMac]

tuscarawasbowman: just to be clear, that wasn't my post.

But...

I just had an experience yesterday. I was out hunting invisible wabbits and saw nuttin' and climbed down off the mountain and then saw a vole (a fat short tailed mouse) and it was running from clump of grass to clump of grass and I couldn't get a shot at it. I was skipping along behind it trying to maintain good form. And there I was at full draw kicking at the clumps trying to get him to run. This is alongside some wheat stubble on a Wildlife Management Area in about 2 inches of snow. And I'm drawing and undrawing and hopping and kicking and drawing. And then I look up at about ten yards away from me in a big jacked Ford pickup -- which I never heard! -- with two "kids" in orange on a dirt/ice lane who, I'm sure, couldn't see what the hell I was aiming at. And one of them said, "I don't know what you're doing, but that is a pretty cool bow."

True story.

[7 Lakes]

I could care less what other people hunt with.  I just like to catch bass with my home made plugs.  Trout on my home made fly's.  Deer, squirrels and rabbits on my home made bows.  

One day I hope to catch trout on a home made split bamboo rod.

Today I brought home a 60 year old Lefever shotgun because I can't stand the way today's 8-9lb, 2x4 looking, over/unders look.  

I'm with Mudd, hunting is more than killing, there is an air of history if not romance that goes with it that I like.  I mean really, would anyone even watch Robin Hood if he was known for his compound accuracy.

[7 Lakes]

Sorry I got on a rant and didn't answer your question.  

I don't know any traditional archers that are "hostile" to other bows, with the possible exception of cross bows.  

I can't answer for them.

[2fletch]

Wow, Mike I didn't know that you did all of those things. I have made a bow or two, caught bass and bream on a fly that I made, but making a lure, and catching trout are two things that have eluded me. I have thought about making a flyrod however.

[xtrema312]

Originally posted by 7 Lakes:
...........hunting is more than killing, there is an air of history if not romance that goes with it that I like. ............

While I agree, I think it is important to point out that we can feel that way to an extent because we have excess food, time, and money.  In the past most people went out and killed stuff to eat and cloth themselves.  White there has always been some spirituality in many cultures around hunting, it was not universal among all hunters or cultures at all times.   Often hunters were thankful for what they got as they should be, but Face it, in the past most hunter went out and did everything possible to kill something. They didn’t think it was so fun and a great time if they came home empty handed to hungry family, tribe or whatever.  .

[xtrema312]

I find it funny how we go around about a difference in equipment based on a minimal real world difference in actually usage.  Most people do not shoot that far with a compound.  I know may compound hunters and they do not shoot much past about 30 yd on rare occasions hunting and most times a lot less. Most of them have never shot in any kind of organized target shoot, and do not shoot very far at all in practice or hunting. Do some research on average kill ranges on the compound bow hunting sites.   I have and found most times it works out to be about 20 yd.  Hard for me to understand all the fuss about another 10 yd. or less average for a shot with a compound vs. a trad bow, and that is about all it is in many parts of the country in actual hunting conditions.  If you need some sites and let off to shoot well and hit what you shoot at, that is just fine with me.  Make a good shot.  So what they shoot accurate and can hold the bow longer than I can.  I can draw and shoot a close moving target faster then they can figure range and hook on with their release.