Why are Trad Guys so hostile to other bows?

[Cyclic-Rivers]

Originally posted by Jeff Strubberg:

There are idiots and those who need to justify their personal choices in both camps.

I think that hits the nail right on the head.  Unfortunately, the idiots are the loudest and sometimes some people are quick to judge a whole group based on one comment.

[kawika b]

This thread saddens me as some of the posts made lend to the thread starters claim that some traditional bowhunters follow an elitist kind of mindset. Nothing positive can come of threads like these as it is a sort of "poke in the chest" topic.

[Hud]

There is no need to feel sorry for the Natives that hunted with inferior equipment, because it wasn't inferior, just different, and their skills were much better than ours.

I am not quite sure where all the elitist hang out, or who is being hateful toward others, and their choice of tools, since this is a traditional bowhunting forum. I would suggest try tuning it out, switch to another topic, or click the Report Post icon.  

[Shaun]

I am just very sad that they are allowed in the archery season.

The reason is that an enormous amount of work went into securing first laws allowing us to hunt with bows and second carving out a separate season for them. Modern arrow propelling devices are not "primitive" any more than in line muzzle loaders are. Lump all that modern stuff into a gun season and fire away.

[tecum-tha]

From another thread:
Modern compounds are not considered bows in my opinion. They're a mechanical shooting device. Nothing "bends" anymore.The idea to invent the compound was the ability to make it easier for hunters to hold a bow at full draw.
The decline to the shooting device started with ridicilous high let-off percentages, mechanical releases, scoped sights and olympic style stabilizers. Archers don't need training wheels. I don't like compound shooters and I don't like to hunt together with them. I am not a fan of modern guns as well, I stay with my flintlock.
I try to sourround myself as much as possible with traditional archers/ traditional black powder shooters. At the local "wheeli bow club" 3D-shoots,I leave the compounders alone and I rather shoot alone. I have no desire to snail shoot with them.I tolerate them, but I don't have to like them or accept them as archers. There are more and more trad only shoots around, so I will frequent the local club a lot less in the future...

[Kevin Dill]

"I don't like compound shooters....." (Author unknown)


I understand someone not liking a certain piece of equipment. I don't understand someone not liking the person who uses it...assuming the equipment produces the judgement.

[team fudd]

tecum-tha, that is exactly the kind of attitude the author of the thread was talking about.  Not sure where you obtained that  but all I can say is wow! That smacks of elitism and a high degree of prejeduice, something I believe there is no place for here and am saddened to see.  But as I have said before there are always a few to spoil the fun. Shame on him.  I for one will not let one bad comment like that keep me from enjoying the thousands of other entertaining, positive, enjoyable posts that are made every week by an outstanding bunch of people. Sometimes you just gotta take the bad with the good.

[Possum Head]

Interesting how contraversial threads seem to be popular! Cant really answer this question as I dont rank among "them". Wouldn't think it would be jealousy though because most that can afford trad gear could go to a wheely! Who knows, I just grab my curve and jump in the truck with all my gun huntin pals and it's off we go!!

[Tajue17]

I have been shooting trad since 86, added primitive archery to my bag of tricks around 1990 (thanks to the late Joe Mattingly making me bows to trade for) then in 2001 I added my first compound to my bag of tricks mainly has a meat winner/no holes barred Meat shopping tool. I shoot all 3 types very very well in their own respected yardages..

okay, I lived it and experienced all types of archers and I have the personal experience on what I experienced and what I witnessed said by folks who didn't know I shot all equipment.

compounders,, I've shot many 3D's in everything from archery hunter groups to Top gun groups and from my experience the top gun shooters had their opinions but most where based on what they witnessed on the course,, its a bad rap towards the sticks because some folks do not hunt and we also play around on the course, so to the target shooters 6 traditional shooters all doing the chicken scratch trying to find arrows behind every other target creates these opinions if its fair towards us or not.

most of the wheelie bowhunters green stake shooters  in my experience usually do not care who is shooting what,, you will get snickered at if you make a bad shot with a stick but anyone with another wheelie bow gets almost the same treatment.  these guys ain't as hardcore as the Topgun tourny shooters and I found many do envy us in a small way,, alot of these guys have a longbow or recurve or had one tucked away and usually because they do not personally know anyone who shoots a stick theyu don't bother even spending time with it,  all their buddys shoot wheels so they don't even mention the stick and jsut shoot wheels..  
within this group I've heard more slack from stickshooters within hearing distance where alot of the time I feel they wanted the wheelies to hear them heckling and I'm a stick shooter myself so I know what certain words mean,,  some wheelie shooters I know here locally got in verbal arguments with stick shooters after hearing smart comments and because of  this theres an animosity from a few that will be there till death I think.

stick shooters,, my fellow stickbow brothers that I've personally shot with all over the country,, I think most forgot where they started and seem to not like the wheelie shooters at all with really no real reason . I've been in these groups a thousand times since I was 16 and its usually cool and nothing is said until the stick shooters catch up to the wheel shooters and are stuck behind them,, here on our 3D's you have a minute to take the shot and alot of my trad buddys forgot that part in the rule book and seem to take it personal and hate certain local wheelie shooters that don't rush who I find are very friendly people and have no beef against us.. one guy known for having all the gagets even offered me his spare key to his truck to use his deer cart if needed after bumping into each other at a management area we both hunted..    face to face theres no problem but behind the backs stuff is usually said and I feel bad.

Primitive shooters,,, I love this part of archery but these guys are hard on everyone.. I've been in Primitive only groups that don't care what you shoot as long as its made from one piece of wood or you surely are not on the best of friends 1st to get the phone call list,, ha ha..                 I say that being funny but the primitive guys that I respect alot get messed with by everyone rather it for fun or stupidity but becauseof our slow dog leg bows that break alot, funny quivers, uglie looking fletch jobs.. there is nothing more awesome than the looks you get when a hardcore primitive group shoots thru on a top gun group at some 3D course and the primitives  all decide to shoot from the top gun stake because they are never shooting for score and they all miss,,,,,, I was there and it made my life complete!!

anyway I have no beef with anyone but when I was younger I would not get caught dead shooting next to a compound, I've had words with them because I refused to shoot inside a dart system with wheelies I didn't even know. I hated them because I really thought they talked crap about me behind my back but after being on all sides of the fences and getting to know alot of different people I now know our only enemy is the Atlatyl throwers,,, yeah watch out for those guys!! they throw everybody under the steam roller its like a secret Mason organization where nobody knows exactly what their plans or beliefs are and whenever you pass one your ears soon start ringing.....

[Buxndiverdux]

Originally posted by njloco:
Buxndiverdux,

"So what I have a hard time understanding is all the hate for the other hunting tools? We have chosen a higher level of challenge but berate others for their accomplishments with "easier" equipment. How can that be construed as anything other than jealousy?"

A name is not necessary, but where did you get this information ?

Everything I have seen from Trad shooters for the last few years has been just the opposite of what you have found.

I've seen the elitist attitudes on many other forums and I obviously let those attitudes form my own perception of Trad Guys. But thanks to this site and it's members, I know that there are plenty of guys on here like me. I really figured this thread was gonna get yanked or that I would be kicked off the forum for starting it, but it didn't happen. There are good guys here. I'm glad I'm a part of it.

[Ragnarok Forge]

Welcome to the family.  There are lots of varied opinions and a few disagreements here or there but they stay polite. They only get yanked when they are not polite.  I don't even bother surfing other trad sites.  To much flaming going on.   Trad Gang is bar none the best trad site on the web.

[Geezer]

I try to subscribe to a personal philosophy of 'live, and let live'...meaning that I may have an opinion on the way other people chose to live, but as long as what they do is legal, and approved by the greater public...let them do as they please.  But here it is:  I have a personal disdain for anyone who uses technology to overcome skill and common sense.  That internalizing isn't just about wheels, bullets, etc., but it extends to all aspects of my life, including texting while driving.

There, I said it...I usually keep my opinions on this matter to myself.  This is probably the first time I've opened up about this in a public forum. I have enjoyed many of the posts under this subject.

[Montanawidower]

Well I'll go out on a limb and say I have problems with compound bows....

Modern compounds (in my opinion) are thinly veiled arrow guns.  

1)  The limbs barely move (if at all)
2)  Two mechanical sights
3)  Trigger release
4)  Laser range finder
5)  Cams and cables providing mechanical energy

It seems to me the same thing is happening in compound bows that happened with muzzle loaders...  People can't help "reinventing" elements of the rifle.  

 However, at some point it loses the elements of ARCHERY and fair chase; the essense of our long season.  

 To each their own, but I'll stick to arching limbs and fingers on a string.

[Blackstick]

HaHaHa! Apples and Oranges.  

[Doc Nock]

Much to give pause and careful thought printed here...

Once commented to some friends who shot wheels at an open 3D, "You guys take a long time to shoot, don'tcha?"

The guy, with good humor, turned to comment "No longer than you guys scratchin for arrows after the shot"  Touche! We laughed...good point!

Thing is at "open" shoots, many of us get tempted to "try" at distances we know are not within our skill set with sticks.  Ergo, "to thine own self (and limits) be true!"  

Only thing I take hombrage with is that our state has now put string guns into archery season. Since we had our FIRST archery season, decades ago, a bow was defined as "hand-drawn and hand-held in the presence of game".  Xbows do NOT meet that criteria...period.

I don't like changing 30-40 yrs of law to meet mfg's economic pressures. I've always supported those with physical limitations getting permits and using Xbows to keep in the game... reasonable accomodations. Othewise, they're not archery as defined by our state law...  

Aside from that, I've seen rancor on both sides... where compound shooters, at a club OPEN shoot once ridiculed my group for having fun and laughing while they were "concentrating"--- and told us to shush!   :eek:  

Being a bit of a rebel, I inquired if we were "Playing golf or shooting 3d?"  Just a hard-core target group with 3x maginfication sights ahead of us...the rest of the Wheelies hooted at the comment...easing the tension for all but the purists!

Live and let live is a good view: Divided we fall, united we stand! We need us all to keep in the game in today's anti-movement driven world!

I do think we need to take a stand when technology promises to corrupt the very precepts of what has been legally defined as "archery" gear--- when the benefits are largely to those who stand to make a corporate profit.

But that becomes a personal preference. I will fight against the mis-use of the equipment, not those who legally use it.

[PaddyMac]

Originally posted by Tajue17:
 I now know our only enemy is the Atlatyl throwers,,, yeah watch out for those guys!! they throw everybody under the steam roller its like a secret Mason organization where nobody knows exactly what their plans or beliefs are and whenever you pass one your ears soon start ringing.....

       

Yeah, and those rock throwers, too!

I live 7 miles outside of a town of 800 people surrounded by state and national forests and wilderness. We have an active contingent of ... well I'm not sure what to call them... but they make their own buckskin clothing and moccasins and self bows and flint their own arrowheads. They  out-trad the heck out of me. They smell highly authentic too. I feel more more deadly than them with my recurve, but I can't compete with being out there every single day. And not a day goes by that a compound shooter doesn't shop in my store and we talk about deer or rabbits or something.

Again, I don't feel hostile at all toward other hunters. Out here we HAVE to get along. Those wetsiders, on the other hand...    

[joe ashton]

I just worry that we could loose our primitive weapon seasons because of very high tech compounds and lord have mercy cross bows. Other than that we hunters need to be brothers.......

[Lee Viv]

I kinda side with Craig and Doc on this one....I have been to trad only shoots where the topic of conversation is making fun of guys using "training wheels", and having compound bow throwing contests, shooting at compound bows, etc.  Those very same "traditionalists" who mocked training wheels promptly could not consistently hit a 3D animal at under 20 yards, let alone in the vitals.....that is what upsets me...I belong to an archery club where I am one of maybe three stickbow shooters..and the other club members appreciate our equipment, and have never been looked down on.....and most shoots I go to are mixed, and most compound shooters take time to ask about my bow, and show a respect for my choice of weapon....members at my club who shoot compounds practice constantly...shoot field, indoors, 3d, whatever..but they shoot all year....they practice with their equipment....

I am sure there are many compound shooters who deride stickbow guys, but I very rarely experience it...perhaps I am just lucky...but I have heard more negative comments about compound shooters from the trad ranks than the other way....

In PA, when compounds were first introduced as part of the archery season...everyone moaned that they would ruin the seasons..when in fact, since then, PA has increased its archery season from four to six weeks......once again..compound hunters at my club and others I know spend just as much time in the woods scouting, hanging tree stands, and hunting as any other type of hunters do....their range may be a little longer, but where I hunt here....with the type of terrain...most hunters get no more than 20 yards anyway....and with the public land pressure here, open field shots are rare..deer don't hit fields till well after shooting hours, and leave well before....

I shoot stickbows because I like shooting them...not because I think they are better, or I am better for hunting with them..or any other reason.  I just like shootin them!

Life is too short to worry about equipment choices, ground hunting vs stand hunting...camo vs plaid.....if those people would spend more time practicing, hunting, scouting..than trying to decide what is trad, and what is not...things would be alot better....if what you are hunting with is legal as far as the state I am in..then you deserve to be in the woods as much as I do....

Let's face it, there are slob gun hunters, slob compound hunters, slob trad hunters..equipment does not constitute a person and his behavior....archery, hunting, trad, etc is a microcosm of society..there are good and bad in all facets......

Lee

[pumatrax]

for me it's not so much the "type" of equipment that is used but the way some people use it. MOST trad guys I've met are way more ethical than other so called hunters...here in Colorado I get fed up with road "hunters" that do drive by shootings...if I see it happen I turn them in to the game warden in a heartbeat ...never called in on a trad hunter..haven't had to !!

[Lee Viv]

As far as trad hunters being more ethical..I have not had anything to base an opinion on as others...most of our road hunters are guys with guns driving down roads at night...not heard of any compound road hunters..must be different other places...

As far as ethics...I still believe these groups are merely a small sample of society as a whole...

In the past couple years, at trad only shoots, I have experienced....

At Baltimore Bowmen Trad shoot, several 3D animal targets were stolen overnight from one of the courses...in areas where only those who attended and shot the course would have known where to look...this past year, Kirk from Bigfoot Bows, in his first year at Baltimore, came from Oregon to have some bows stolen as well..'

A few years ago at Denton Hill..Leon Stewart had several bows stolen from his booth overnight, as well as other items from vendors being stolen...leading Denton Hill to increase the number of workers having to spend the nights in the vendor tents......

Dishonesty, lack of morals and ethics, etc exist in every aspect of this society we now live in....I do not believe the choice of hunting equipment is the deciding factor in the cause or reason.....we would all like to believe that we are in a select group of hunters who have higher standards because of the equipment we choose, but I have not seen enough conclusive proof to verify that.....through my working in the business and being an active participant also........