Point weight and tuning thoughts...

[donw]

generally speaking...I've found that the more weight up front, the better the flight and stability of the arrow. (Provided all else is "In tune")

[Thumper Dunker]

   

[TexasStick81]

I agree that we get too caught up in the details at times.  I will say this, I like to have consistency in a set up that works for me (in my case AD trad lites, 31.5', 250 up front) not because I think a minor difference here or there would make a signficant change in the outcome but because it allows me to focus on the few variables that I think make the most difference, my form, focus, and release.  When I feel pretty confident that the equipment variables are held constant (also why I like the AD lites because they are so forgiving to small differences) then I don't worry about them but just focus on the few really important variables. It's not so much about feeling like everything is perfect as not wondering what caused that shot to be different from the last, this way I know it was just my fault:)

[Manitoba Stickflinger]

Tim hits on a valid point...for me at least! If I short draw or have some finger lag on the string, it's now a significant shooting error causing arrow flight issues. Perhaps that's why a weak shaft works for me as I NEVER over-draw and often under-draw.
Shoot an arrow that performs in cases regarding YOUR common errors, one that will fly nicely when you make your common mistakes!

[Tim]

Ryan,

I tune all my arrows to be slightly weak.  Most often when tuning our bows in search of the perfect arrow we are warmed up and our shoulders are loose. More often then not we will tune our bows on nice calm days when wind isn't a factor, which usually means lighter clothes.  This all equals another half inch of draw.

You're not alone very few folks overdraw when shooting at animal in hunting conditions. Shooting down from a treestand will also cause a slight reduction in your draw length.  I really believe a slightly weak arrow will be more forgiving.

Tim

[Bigriver]

Hmmm.... so let me get this right. Most anyone who tinkers with point weight & tecnhnical archery things have no confidence in their equipment &  most likely are ignorant about  icons of the  trad archery world. Hmmm, pretty general blanket statements dont you think?

[Tim]

    Yeah Brian and fly fisherman who tie their own flies and look under rocks don't know what their doing!

I tinker because it's fun and pays dividends in the field...and the freezer.  And just how many arrows did Howard Hill go through before he found the perfect dozen that carried broadheads?

[Owlgrowler]

Steve O says "If you are tuned, you can shoot a broadhead (and I did do it out to 20 yards not over 30 like Roger did)bare shaft."

What next you maniac? running with scissors?    

I'm such a boyscout sometimes... never bareshaft with broads

Anyhow, I will try that this summer and let you know how it works out.

And , I tune like Tim suggests, on the weak side just for the reasons he states.

And, I've looked up Stu's calculator twice because I thought I was missing something and both times I closed it up without following it all the way through, too complicated for this feeble-minded archer.

[Steve O]

Now fellas, don't get all *********** on me...

Tuning is a wonderfully thing.  One of my best memories ever is watching one of my hunting partners dance a jig he was so happy with his broadhead flight when we got done tuning his set up.  And I do work hard at consistency in my arrows.  I have not shot wood arrows for a long time because I need to know if something went wrong it was ME, not a wobbly arrow.

Now me, I don't think you could put a hunting bow in a shooting MACHINE and see a difference of 15 grains of point weight at 30 yards...I would like to try it though.

[xtrema312]

If I am shooting very consistent with a carbon arrow bare shaft out around 25 yd or more, I can tell 15 gr.  Just did it the other day, and I did see a consistent difference.  I had to shoot both shafts side by side over maybe 10 shots each to have some averaging to allow for little form things, but it was there.  However, fletched up I could not see it. I do believe that I could if my tune was borderline particularly on the stiff side.  Even then, it would likely be sporadic flight issues when form compounded the point weight difference causing an over stiff condition.   I find it is better to be a little weak to account for short draws and such.  When I have that and tune in the sweet spot, I do not see much difference in small point weight differences or field point vs. broad head.  

Seems to me I have to tinker more with carbon arrows than I ever did with wood or aluminum, but particularly wood.

[Bigriver]

"Now fellas, don't get all *********** on me..."

Just looking for clarification big fella  :p    :p    :p

[Smithhammer]

Originally posted by Swamp Yankee:
I agree 110%.  More time practicing and less obsessing would probably be a better approach for most of us.

But, but....then what are the obsessives going to obsess about?

   :D

Just kidding. I fully agree.

[Bigriver]

What if we obsess about practice AND tuning AT the same time!!

[Hopewell Tom]

Thank you.

[David Yukon]

One question, If you tune your arrows, let say bare shaft, at 15 yards... what happen at 5, 8, 10, 12 yards might be different, no?

[Mark Baker]

"I tinker because it's fun and pays dividends in the field...and the freezer. And just how many arrows did Howard Hill go through before he found the perfect dozen that carried broadheads?"

This is a quote of Tim's....I have'nt figured out the quote thing yet.  You would think I could after all these years...(now you know why I don't/can't obsess over some of this....a lack of patience)

I think this techno-obsessing stuff is a relatively new phenom.  We use to only have the Easton chart, and a spine chart for woodies to deal with.   Pretty simple.   In the mid-eighties, I use to catch a lot of flack for shooting 190 gr. Grizzlies....yeah!  Nobody shot more than 125 gr. on their arrow points.   It was also one of the reasons I could go to bigger feathers...another thing I caught flack for (and still do).  But now, with the internet, we get bombarded with info all the time, and it makes us all "doubt" or constantly adjust I think, moreso than we used to.  At least those of us who like to do that or are still learning and not so stuck in our ways.  I have several dozen carbons now...still shoot mostly wood....but I set them up exactly like my wood, and they work perfect!  Maybe even better than the wood.   I still shoot heavy broadheads (I set my arrows up with them from the getgo), weight the shafts to get the overall up, and put the same big feathers on the back.  They fly so well, I think if I were a better archer, I could shoot the 50 axe heads that Oddyseus shot through...and they work with my selfbows, and my custom recurves and longbows.   I just don't have time to fuss with a new arrow for each bow I own.  

I'm not poo-pooing the whole tinkering thing, there is a lot to be learned there, and make no mistake, I build my arrows as exacting as I can, so that there's no guesswork in the field for me either.  It's just new products, new info, new attitudes, and yes, new hype have changed the whole persona of "new trad" a bit, and it makes me "wince" a little.   But I still like you guys anyways!

[Jeff Strubberg]

I have to disagree that this type of tinkering is a new thing.  If any of you have read "The Old Bowhunter" about the life of Chet Stevenson, he talks about knowing how many times his arrows rotated over a given distance.  He used that knowledge to perform trick shots in front of audiences while promoting archery.

Tinkering isn't new.  Being able to discuss it so easily is!

[Mark Baker]

Even less choices in Chet's day....and a whole lot less info about it.  His "tinkering" was probably not more than astute observation about what was working for him, and how he applied it.  It would likely pale by today's comparisons, simply by virtue of todays vast array of choices.  I read Chet's book when it came out (been awhile) and have to say it's one of my favorites, but I can't say that I was struck by his attention to "tinkering".   Now his skills as a bowyer were impressive.  

For me, it's easier to build bows that work for my stash of gear, than to play around with different arrows all the time.  I suspect Chet did a lot of that.   And anyone who shot arrows constantly and did a great deal of trick shooting would observe that "with big feathers" their arrows rotated X-times in 10 yards...or some such.  Writing it down probably made it seem much more of a process than it was...not unlike today, I'd say, and our impressions from all these posts about it.    

Of course, it's just my guess.   Like I said, tinkering is fine, and I have no problems with it.   I just think what some are attracted to about it, others may get overwhelmed...when there are easier solutions that can work as well many times.  So the question is, how productive is it, in regards to keeping some who might be turned off, interested in what is supposed to be a simple sport?   It's almost becoming the same as the pro-shops that sell the compound stuff and TELL you what you need, rather than realizing that all that crap is just that...crap, and not necessary.  That's my beef with it all.   And in getting back to the original premise of Steve's thread....15 grains, by most, myself included, would hardly be noticed, especially at hunting distance.   The gear itself will shoot a whole lot better than I am capable of shooting it, or in controling the numerous array of possibilities that can occur while I am shooting it.  I've been shooting for 40 years, and my form is pretty set...and I "think" I have a good grasp of "how", -- now someone "new" to trad, will not have near the frame of reference that many of us who have been shooting for years now, have, and I daresay, it probably will not be noticeable to them either.  

A good experiment to try though...and interesting.  Tinker on!   Then post the results.

[Oliverstacy]

Originally posted by Steve O:

Take a bill--a piece of genuine US currency--out of your wallet and fold it up so it is in a little square you can set on your grain scale.  It can be $1, $20, or $100.  

     

Quick question...what does a $100 look like?  Haven't seen many (if any) since I got married and had kids.      

Steve AKA "Big Spender" O...ya better come over and show me one.  I've even trade it for some 5 grain brass washers they sell at various places.


All seriousness...good point!

Josh

[Gray Buffalo]

I feel some on here brought the wheel bow mentally with them. Point weight 20gr does not mean much at 20 yards