More on the "heavy arrow" debate

[wapiti792]

Well while we're on the subject...I have a difficult time getting heavier arrows to fly well(660gr) out of my 67# recurve. I don't know why. Maybe it's me. I've done the tuning and the best I get is a 2020 cut to 30.5 with 220 gr out front. I'll be using it in Sept elk hunting, with reservations.

What flies best are 500gr carbons, and I use it on deer sized and smaller game. It has blown through the last 3 whitetails I have taken including a 300# buck last December. I am very tempted to hunt elk with those carbons but the whole heavy arrow debate bothers me. Any thoughts?

I'm sure part of it is confidence and "feel" as the arrow is released. I need to tame this problem with a trip to Africa next year looming. Dr Ashby used big arrows for big game. I wonder how much is "enough" for game in our little part of the world.

[Shawn Leonard]

Agreed!! I will also say the Indians and many hunters before us could of cared less abouty all this they made up an arrow from whatever available and if it flew good they could of cared less what it weighed. They got close and made good shots and that was that. I sometimes think we all think too much, I know I do and it gets me in trouble!        Shawn

[JC]

Chris, with my bows and my arrows, I shoot whatever head I happen to choose that day. Typically, I carry a woodsman, a STOS, and either a Simmons Interceptor or Simmons Treeshark both with bleeders in my bow quiver. Most hunts, I have all of these in my quiver. All have performed perfectly in my experience so I shoot whichever I feel the whim to at that time. Variety...one of the spice's of life  

[ChuckC]

Agree with Vermontster.  for deer, there is hardly a wrong set up.  I have gotten pass thru's with a 45 lb bow and I suspect I could do it with high 30's, as long as you are taking reasonable shots for that equipment.  For larger game, or for long range shots, then the discussion is real.   I believe they (law enforcement)use the bow poundage as a rule of thumb because it is clearly and quickly evident in the field.  It is something that can concievably be controlled.  Can you imagine having to carry documentation with you describing calculations of your bow's efficiency and validated using particular draw length, arrow weight, string, etc. etc. so that the officer can review them in the field to determine if you met the stated minimums ?
ChuckC

[JC]

Yep, you're right Shawn, but my ancestor's ethics were based on survival...convention at that time was certainly different than modern times...I think it's a different story today.

If a guy has complete confidence with light bows and light arrows, has proven it on game, more power to him. Hopefully, they will always perform that way for him/her. Like I said though, I'm not quite that lucky so I like a bit more "insurance".

[Landshark160]

I'm kinda like you JC.  I shot deer with a Landshark, one with an Interceptor, and one with a Treeshark last season.  It's all good.  

[JC]

Chris, my goal this year is to kill every big game animal with a different head: so far an angora goat in march with a woodsman, and a bear last month with a deadhead (forgot to add that to my list above). I think the next will probably be one of the Simmons.

I'm working on getting bleeders in my STOS and if I can bring myself to it, one in a couple of Deadheads too just for the sake of experimentation.

[hockeyref]

Chuck, You bring up another side point for discussion.... You guys that are right around 28" draw could point to the writing on your bow and say "I'M LEGAL" if you happen to live in a state that specifies minimum draw weights.....

Now I draw ~32" and - as an example - have a Hoyt Gold Medalist with 32# limbs that measures 43# at my draw. I have a Bear Black bear that is 40# but over 50# at my draw, a Howatt 60# that isupwards of 70# AT MY DRAW. Depending on the bow, I could be shooting a "legal weight" measured at my draw but to the WCO looking at it I'm 5-10 # too light.... And I'm sorry to say some WCO's just don't have the knowledge to think that stick bows stack - I mean if says it is 35# then it's 35# no matter what that scale says!

[Steertalker]

wapiti792,

Not sure why you're having trouble getting your heavy arrows to fly right out of your 67 lb bow.  I also shoot 67 lbs and use 645 gr carbon arrows which are tuned perfectly for that bow.  Had no problem zipping through both shoulders on a 5x6 bull elk last September.  But if you are getting good arrow flight from 500 gr carbons from that bow I don't think you'll have any problems putting one of those through an elk.  However....I think that is waaaay to light an arrow for that bow.

Brett

[Charlie Lamb]

Wapiti792... I'd go ahead and shoot the carbons at elk. If they fly great and you have a razor sharp broadhead you'll be fine.

I don't care who you are or what bow weight, arrow combo you might shoot. If you get into the bony structure of an elks front end you're probably gonna lose.

[eagle24]

JC,
Bottom line 460gr carbon arrow w/125gr Stinger @ 184fps perfect arrow flight.  I think I know what will happen if I make a perfect "center punch" broadside hit on any whitetail.  If I should happen to hit a shoulder blade (not ball joint) on a 300# whitetail am I in trouble?

Steve,
Here in AL I think the law reads 35# at the hunters draw length.

[Charlie Lamb]

Let me add that the 2020 never worked that well for me in that weight bow at that length. A 2216 or maybe even a 2219 should work great. You'll get a little more weight with the 2216 and a whole lot more with the 2219.

[wapiti792]

Thanks Charlie. I've got a few 2216s sitting around. I'll see what they do. Yeah, it's all about painting them red. Elk shoulders are a bit rough on ANY arrow. I'll just have to stay away from those shoulder bones and put 'em where they ain't.

[JC]

It would be complete speculation Greg, I have no experience with weights that light. I will say, I'm sure there are guys on here who have done it numerous times so it's not a factor of "it can't be done". I'm just big on insurance  

[pseman]

I can't wait for hunting season when we can talk about the animals we've killed with our bow instead of whether or not we can kill an animal with our particular set-ups.    

12 weeks and counting......

[Bjorn]

Science and calculations has a lot to do with it for sure; but how it flies and where it goes is still more important than what it weighs and how many fps it had. That said; I like 12 gpp outta my 50# bows.

[eagle24]

Originally posted by JC:
I'm just big on insurance      

Why you need insurance JC?  You hit'em through both lungs and/or the heart everytime!  :confused:  

That Javvy does'nt look like he's popping his teeth now!

[John Nail]

Kent Ostrem (Mahaska) told me a story of a bear hunt he took in Canada.
He found an old bear's Scapula in the woods, and leaned it against a tree in camp. Several compound shooters and Trad guys shot it with their hunting rigs. Kent said Nobody went through it.

[Landshark160]

Originally posted by eagle24:

If I should happen to hit a shoulder blade (not ball joint) on a 300# whitetail am I in trouble?

I hit the shoulder blade on an approx 125# whitetail buck 7 or 8 years ago when I was shooting wheels.  I was shooting a 2419 that finished up at or just over 700 gr. going 236 fps. out of the 92# bow I was shooting.  I DID NOT get enough penetration to kill him.  He was seen two weeks later by my friend who hunts on property about a mile away.  His shoulder had scabbed over.  The shot was at 20 yards so arrow flight was perfect (Big Feathers + Lots of Helical).

There's just no telling what's going to be enough on any given shot.

[TRADITIONAL ONLY]

first off, work with what you got.

second it only matters if it ACTUALLY GET TO THE ANIMAL!

third, in addition to #2, it only matters if it hits the rightplace.

fourth, out of my Fred Bear Kodiak Magnum 45#@28", 520 grains or so is too heavy..... (ive since cut my GrizzltStiks to 28 1/4" and put in the aliminum insert and dropped her down to 450-460 grains...)