Skinny Strings

[SlowBowinMO]

Most skinny strings are simply not needlessly overbuilt.  All my FF compatible bows wear 8 strands, and 8 strand D-97 and D-10 has been original equipment on our Fireflies for several years.  They simply shoot better, at least on our bows.

[LBR]

...what is the issue?

Not so much an "issue" as a "trade-off". Everything had trade-offs.

 

I think some companys won't sell lower strand count strings on account of having to mess with serving/nock fit and loop padding issues.

I can only speak for myself--for me, it's a liability concern.  Look at BCY and Brownell's sites--see what they recommend for strand counts.  I pad the loops on all my HMPE strings unless asked not to, and doing a serving and a half might add 2-3 minutes to the build.


Like I said before, it's a personal call.  If they work for you, shoot 'em.  If they don't, don't feel like it's the end of the world.  There's been a few folks down the line that have done pretty well with dacron, even linen, silk, etc.  

Ever watch any old Ben Pearson, Fred Bear, Howard Hill, etc. videos?  Their strings often looked like they stole a clothes line, but they managed to get the job done, on targets and critters.  Even earlier on the archery scene were these guys by the name of Saxton Pope and Art Young...maybe you have heard of them...    

Chad

[widow sax]

I love skinny strings but with that being said they do not do not work on some bows and some lbs pull.  As far as skinny strings I realy like SBD they are first class.     Widow

[Mike Mecredy]

So if I used 8 stands of B-55 and an extra 2 in the serving area so the snock would grab, on a 43# bow is it considered skinny?

[stujay]

I'm reading that JamesKerr was told that skinny strings given some time will lead to limb failure due to added vibration. That's a charge that if true some proof ought to be provided to substantiated it. Either it's true (give examples) or not true, or is this just an unfounded opionion.

[Steelhead]

I cant see limb vibration being a problem with a well built skinny string and good silencing.In general the limbs and string seem to dampen out faster and the bows seem to shoot quieter to my ear and you increase the effeciency of your bow to a small degree.Thier can be less felt handshock and handshock is the result of vibration.I am not buying the more vibration theory from my personaell experience with shooting alot of skinny strings for quite a few years of many different materials.All had built up loops and were well made.Most were 6,8 and 10 strand strings.Differnt materials will give you different circumfirances as mentioned by LBR.

All bows are not the same though and each bow will have a material,strand count and silencer placement,brace hieght and arrow weight that it performs best at as far as vibration,efficiency,quietness and shooting comfort.

Nothing wrong ar all with using a fatter string.They are very durable,last longer and will withstand more abuse from abrasion and work just fine.Thier is some peace of mind using a fatter string.

I think you should replace a skinny string sooner than you would a thicker string when it starts showing signs of wear that concern you to be on the safe side.

I am not sure if I would use a 8 strand B-50 Mike?Maybe 10 to be safer.I like 12 and have used that alot on Vintage Bears of around 50#s draw.

[Rob DiStefano]

low strand count, or "skinny" bowstrings will Never be a problem for any stick bow provided the bowtring strand material is a form of hmpe (i.e. - ff, df'97, d10. etc - "dyneema", "spectra", "vectran", etc) and the string loops are padded for some measure of cushioning thickness.  read that again.  that's all there is to "skinny strings". done right they're perfectly safe for ALL stick bows that are built for modern string materials.          

the average hmpe fiber has a tensile strength of over 100# per strand.  let's do the math ...

the typical bow/bowstring tensile strength ratio is 10:1, which means that a 600# tensile strength string is good for a 60# stick bow.  

a 60# stick bow with a 14 strand hmpe bowstring will have a breaking strength in excess of 1400#.  think about it.  that's overkill in the tensile strength department and a bow holding weight to bowstring tensile strength ratio of 23 to 1.  drop the strand count down to 8 and that 800+ pounds of tensile strength now has a strength ratio of over 13:1. hmmmmm.            

change the hmpe (polyethylene) to dacron (polyester), with its 50# per strand (actually, less) and it takes a 12 strand dacron string to equal that 10:1 standard.  add in 2 strands for a 12:1 ratio if that makes ya feel more comfy.

these are the facts when it comes to bowstring strand counts.  do with it what you like.  some folks just don't like the idea of an 8 strand bowstring, and feel there's a margin of durability missing.  some talk about string noise and others are concerned about arrow speed.  there are LOTS of other likes/dislikes about bowstring materials and strand counts.  pick whatever makes you happiest and go kill something, 'cause that's what they all will do regardless of what you, i, and others think.  it's all good, just do what you want.  but do it safely and with the facts.    

[Swamp Yankee]

If a bowyer guarentees their bow with a 16 strand string and at least 9 gr/in arrow, then you shoot it with either a less than 9 gr/in arrow OR a less than 16 strand string, then I'd say the bowyer would be off the hook should the bow blow up on you.  I most cases, we're either shooting arrows that weigh more than the minimum and/or added weight to our strings with silencers and the point becomes mute.  "Skinny" strings are nothing more than a simple bowstring made of modern hmpe material that is not grossly overbuilt.
In my opinion, those overbuilt 16 strand hmpe strings have so little stretch in them that they put more stress on a bow than a 6 or 8 strand hmpe string that "gives" a little bit like the old dacron strings did; which I suspect is a part of why they tend to be quieter.

[Swamp Yankee]

Oh yeah, string to nock fit is more a function of the serving than the number of strands in a string.  In the case of "skinny" strings, I consider padding to be just part of the serving as it adds nothing to the basic strength of the string.

[Mike Mecredy]

With the bows I build and sell, I provide a B-55 string,  (B-55 is a little thicker than B-50) the ones up to 45# I use 8 strands, for 50# - 55# I use 10 strands, for 60# I use 12 strands. Sometimes for one between 45# and 50# I'll make a 3 bundle 9 strand.  I haven't had a problem.   To me there's not much worse than an over built string.  But if you do this, make certain the tips are reinforced and the string grooves are radiused around the back of the bow to give the string loop smooth continuous bearing surface.  That will keep the tips from spliting, and the string will last longer.

[Smithhammer]

Originally posted by stujay:
I'm reading that JamesKerr was told that skinny strings given some time will lead to limb failure due to added vibration. That's a charge that if true some proof ought to be provided to substantiated it. Either it's true (give examples) or not true, or is this just an unfounded opionion.

Agreed. I hear this all the time too, but have never seen evidence. Has anyone actually had a modern bow "blow-up" as a result of using a skinny string? If so, let's hear about it.

[Mike Mecredy]

Not exactly modern, but I repaired a few Damon howett hunters that had the tips split about 2" up from using thin low stretch materials.  But had the tips been reinforced and fashoined for low stretch string they wouldn't have.

Also, vibration can be dampened with the use of limbsavers or string silencers.  If you can feel it or hear it it's there, if you can't it's reduced.

[JamesKerr]

I switched back to my 14 strand string as when I shot my 8 strand on my tomahawk it was a little louder and did add a little more vibration to the shot. That being said I am a hunter and want as quiet of a setup as possible. The extra 5 or 6 fps wasn't worth it to me.

[LBR]

To me there's not much worse than an over built string.

What do you consider "overbuilt", and why are they so bad?

[Bladepeek]

Not related, but in a way it is. When homogenous steel barrels were introduced in shotguns, many shooters rejected them because they considered them unsafe and they caused a bad "ringing" which was painful to the ears of the shooter.

I have a 42# D type longbow that the maker puts a 15 strand B-50 string on because "it's quieter". He does not recommend a FF string. I am going to try a heavily padded 10-strand FF string and see what effect it has on vibration and noise. If it improves things, I think I will grind off the tip reinforcement and put some micarta and horn on the tips. I really think this bow is being held back by that heavy string.

[Mike Mecredy]

LBR It's a waste of materials.  That doesn't bother most the way it does me.  

I use the amount of strands required on my bows.  If someone wants a bows string from me, and I only know the length of the bow, I have never seen it before, I use more strands to be safe, but on my own bow designs, and string nocks I made, I know what they are capable of.

I just always like less mass in the moving parts too.  I like the smallest fletching I can get by with, the narrowest limbs, skinny 5/16" arrows, and thin strings.

[Rob DiStefano]

keep in mind that as long as a bowstring is well made, has sufficient strands for the bow's holding weight, is of a proper string material and build for the bow in question, nothing else matters.  that's where personal subjectivity enters the equation.  do whatever makes you happiest.

[Mike Mecredy]

On the subject of being happy, what's more quiet, a skinny bowhunter or a thick bowhunter?

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Mike Mecredy:
On the subject of being happy, what's more quiet, a skinny bowhunter or a thick bowhunter?

depends on who's noisiest.  

[JamesKerr]

Thanks guys for all the help. I will be sticking with my 14 strand string as it is the quietest on my bow and gives me a perfect nock fit and pretty good speed to boot (170 fps).