Best, lightest sleeping bag for back packing?

[Kevin Hansen]

I have used a 0 degree quilt in sub zero temps and it was okay but I personally think quilts start having diminishing returns much below 20f. That said, they have a wider temp range than comparable sleeping bags and it’s easy to use a warm quilt (like that 0) in warmer temps by loosely draping  it over me. A pad with a high R-value (at least 5, higher the better) can help a lot as do base layers. I’ve spent many nights wearing all of my clothes under the quilt which I always feel is an efficient use of pack weight but might not be comfortable for all. It really goes back to spending some time familiarizing yourself to the gear in tough conditions. Winter/spring  trips like ski traverses are great for sussing stuff out in my experience.

Re: western mountaineering. I personally avoid any kind of windstopper or other laminant on the shell because of moisture management concerns  but I have friends who like the WS bags. For winter or late fall trips where I know I’ll encounter cold temps the whole trip I take an Antelope (5F rated) . For true AK subzero winter trips I’ve used much warmer bags but we honestly don’t get that cold of temps anymore very often except in the AK range and midwinter arctic so the antelope is more than adequate for most of what I do. It’s also easy to lay a quilt over the bag for really cold conditions.

Appreciate the additional info.

[OkKeith]

I know you are looking for a down bag and this may not be helpful at all...

After years (30+) of fooling around with various down bags I have gone to a quality synthetic. I just find it easier to manage while in the backcountry and at home when in storage. I am pretty meticulous about how clean my bags stay and wash them more frequently (but correctly) than I should. Down bags are just a pain in the neck (to me... I hunt and hike with other folks who use and love them). I have tried several but am running a Big Agnes Encampment 15 right now. It is one of their "sleep system" bags that has no insulation on the bottom but rather a sleeve to put an inflatable mattress in (never have to worry about rolling off or the pad getting out from under you). I use the BA Q-core Insulated mattress which packs down smaller than most self inflating "therm-a-rest" style pads and is 2X the thickness. I am a warm sleeper and have been comfortable down to the stated rating and below with added insulation inside (military woobie and long johns). I have read many reviews that stated folks were cold using the system but in almost all of those they were not using an INSULATED mattress. It is my thought that this makes a big difference.

I am a big guy... 6' 5" and 300lbs. I have the biggest mattress they have and the wide/long bag. Once it is all together with the right amount of air in the mattress it's VERY comfortable and has plenty of room for me to sleep on either side and move around in the bag.

Yes... it's probably a little heavy... bag weighs 3lbs and the mattress is just under a pound BUT I sleep very well. A lighter/smaller bag weighs less but I just don't sleep good in them. I can't sleep laying flat on my back with my arms at my side. I don't sleep that way at home and it wears on me when I try it on a backcountry hunt. It is all a trade off. I would rather carry an extra pound when I have slept good and feel good every morning rather than save a pound and feel like crap every morning of the hunt.

The reason there are so many choices available is because everyone is different. I just thought I would add to your body of knowledge that will inform your decision.

OkKeith

[Kevin Hansen]

I know you are looking for a down bag and this may not be helpful at all...

After years (30+) of fooling around with various down bags I have gone to a quality synthetic. I just find it easier to manage while in the backcountry and at home when in storage. I am pretty meticulous about how clean my bags stay and wash them more frequently (but correctly) than I should. Down bags are just a pain in the neck (to me... I hunt and hike with other folks who use and love them). I have tried several but am running a Big Agnes Encampment 15 right now. It is one of their "sleep system" bags that has no insulation on the bottom but rather a sleeve to put an inflatable mattress in (never have to worry about rolling off or the pad getting out from under you). I use the BA Q-core Insulated mattress which packs down smaller than most self inflating "therm-a-rest" style pads and is 2X the thickness. I am a warm sleeper and have been comfortable down to the stated rating and below with added insulation inside (military woobie and long johns). I have read many reviews that stated folks were cold using the system but in almost all of those they were not using an INSULATED mattress. It is my thought that this makes a big difference.

I am a big guy... 6' 5" and 300lbs. I have the biggest mattress they have and the wide/long bag. Once it is all together with the right amount of air in the mattress it's VERY comfortable and has plenty of room for me to sleep on either side and move around in the bag.

Yes... it's probably a little heavy... bag weighs 3lbs and the mattress is just under a pound BUT I sleep very well. A lighter/smaller bag weighs less but I just don't sleep good in them. I can't sleep laying flat on my back with my arms at my side. I don't sleep that way at home and it wears on me when I try it on a backcountry hunt. It is all a trade off. I would rather carry an extra pound when I have slept good and feel good every morning rather than save a pound and feel like crap every morning of the hunt.

The reason there are so many choices available is because everyone is different. I just thought I would add to your body of knowledge that will inform your decision.

OkKeith

Appreciate your detailed thoughts, OkKeith. Thanks.

[YosemiteSam]

Mine run around 2.5 - 3 lb.  I've thought about getting something in the 30-40* range for an ultralight summer setup (1-2 lb) but I usually just carry the extra couple pounds & stick to what I have.  I've never regretted carrying too warm a bag.  Last year, I was cowboy camping in the Archery season up high.  Temps were in the low 30s at night.  I slept very well each night and was glad that I made my hike in a little less comfortable so that my nights could be very comfortable.

Now if I was going to move camp every day and bivy wherever I found myself at sunset, I might be a little more inclined to shed an extra pound or two.

[OkKeith]

No worries Kevin. Like I mentioned, probably not helpful in choosing a down bag but more info is better than less... sometimes.

The BA bag I use most often is rated at 15 degrees. I also have a 30 degree bag and a zero degree bag. The 30 is an oversized mummy and I use it more like a quilt with a foot box in warmer weather than a sleeping bag. I have looked into the over quilt craze. The 30 degree bag works fine for cool nights. In my experience, using a heavy quilt for cold nights wouldn't work for me. Every time I roll over (which is a lot I guess) I flop the cover off and end up having to re-tuck it around me and re-warm the inside. That's OK for cool nights... it would not be good for cold nights.

The zero bag is tight to me (well... maybe tight on me since I'm a bigger guy). I have a Gore Tex bivy sack that the 30 and the zero will work in but since I sleep hot I always get some condensation. The zero bag and the bivy usually live in a tub in the back seat of my truck during the winter and on trips to the mountains as an emergency or back-up bag.

I think your tent or shelter choice should inform your bag choice as well. If you go ultra-ultralight with a super light tarp and use trekking poles for the supports, your bag may need an outside shell just to keep it from getting soggy on the ground. If you do a tipi tent with a stove, a different option might be better.

On back country hunts where it all goes in on my back I have a Mountainsmith 3-season tent. It was sold as a 2-person footprint but it is definitely a 1-Keith size. It has a nice vestibule where I can keep gear (and MOST importantly boots!) inside at night. It's small enough to pack but large enough on one end (wedge-shaped) to sit up and pull on clothes in. I have been using it for a couple of years now and really like it. Again, I am sacrificing increased weight for more comfort but it is worth it to me. One advantage to having a strong back and a weak mind I guess.

I have way more gear than I can use on one trip. My wife claims that when she is gone, she thinks I lay it all out and roll around in it. Why else would I need so much stuff? Sleeping bags, tents, stoves, cook kits, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. I suppose I could be spending the money on worse "life choices".

OkKeith

[Kevin Hansen]

 I suppose I could be spending the money on worse "life choices".

OkKeith

I think most of us on this forum use that rationale!

[Michael Pfander]

I use a golite ultralite subzero bag.  I got the water  proof down option.  The only time I use it is when I am doing a solo backpacking trip.  It weighs 3.5 lbs.  With my Nemo tent, BA pad, and the golite my shelter and sleep system weighs less than 8 lbs.  My 10 day load out is under 60 lbs.  This lets this "old man" [64] go where I want.
MAP

[GCook]

I have good synthetic bags but they never get packed anymore.   The room they take up in the pack is more critical than the pounds they outweigh down bags with.  However our back pack trips are usually 10 to 15 miles per day and a different camp each night.  Packing into a hunting area and setting up a base camp to out of might give me a reason to rethink my gear.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[Kevin Hansen]

 I’m really enjoying all the different ideas shared in this thread. Some of them reinforce my own thoughts, and just as importantly others challenge my ideas. All good stuff.

[Kevin Dill]

I have a good many years with a WM Sequoia GWS (Gore WindStopper) under my belt. Basically all of its use has been in Alaska and it has seen the worst and best of weather. I also own a WM TerraLite (microfiber) bag. My experience has been that the GWS models do not show any noticeable tendency to accumulate body moisture over extended time...say 12 days. Having owned both shell types, I do prefer the GWS for use in my tipi shelters and in settings where my bag might get exposed to some external moisture. I would be more likely to choose the lighter microfiber bags for use in a floored tent or more weather-tight shelter.

[Kevin Hansen]

I have a good many years with a WM Sequoia GWS (Gore WindStopper) under my belt. Basically all of its use has been in Alaska and it has seen the worst and best of weather. I also own a WM TerraLite (microfiber) bag. My experience has been that the GWS models do not show any noticeable tendency to accumulate body moisture over extended time...say 12 days. Having owned both shell types, I do prefer the GWS for use in my tipi shelters and in settings where my bag might get exposed to some external moisture. I would be more likely to choose the lighter microfiber bags for use in a floored tent or more weather-tight shelter.

Based on your comments can I also assume you are also a fan of the treated down, Kevin?

[Kevin Dill]

Actually I have very little experience with down treated to be hydrophobic. I've used it in a garment, but never got it really wet. As for use in a sleeping bag, I probably wouldn't put any importance on it. Maybe in a bivy setting, yes. Inside a good shelter, no. I'll stay with GWS and very lofty down.

[kevsuperg]

Well received my outdoor vitals bag and tensor sleeping pad.  Being new to this lightweight thing I was surprised at the quality and construction of both.
 The sleeping pad 72x20 inflates with an included air bag in less than a minute. 3" thick. on the living room floor it seems comfortable but I do notice lying on my back I feel my hips are higher than my shoulders forcing me into an at attention stance. I'm sure a pillow will help.
 It is narrow , on your back both arms are on the floor.
 The bag 75x32 is definitely a mummy bag, snug but enough room to move around. Needed to open the zipper a little for elbow room when sleeping on your side.
 The two way zipper did catch a few times and I'm not a fan of Velcro around synthetics so we'll see how long the neck closure lasts. But all and all both seem solid.
I'll update this once I get some time with both.   Hope this helps

[Kevin Hansen]

 

Well received my outdoor vitals bag and tensor sleeping pad.  Being new to this lightweight thing I was surprised at the quality and construction of both.
 The sleeping pad 72x20 inflates with an included air bag in less than a minute. 3" thick. on the living room floor it seems comfortable but I do notice lying on my back I feel my hips are higher than my shoulders forcing me into an at attention stance. I'm sure a pillow will help.
 It is narrow , on your back both arms are on the floor.
 The bag 75x32 is definitely a mummy bag, snug but enough room to move around. Needed to open the zipper a little for elbow room when sleeping on your side.
 The two way zipper did catch a few times and I'm not a fan of Velcro around synthetics so we'll see how long the neck closure lasts. But all and all both seem solid.
I'll update this once I get some time with both.   Hope this helps

[OkKeith]

Kevsuperg -

I have a similar setup with my Big Agnes Insulated Q-core mattress (i.e. inflatable pad with a "pump sack"). When I first started using it I over inflated with the same result you are having. I have since learned that it doesn't need near as much air as I initially thought. After having used it a few times I get it close, and just a little over... then when I crawl in I make sure the adjustment valve is easily accessible and ease it down to where it is supportive but doesn't hump me up in the middle.

I mostly sleep on my side with a stuff sack of clothes shoved into the hood. As a big guy with wide shoulders I have to have a pretty big pillow to prevent a neck crick and using a stuff sack and clothing from my pack keeps me from taking up space with a pillow. Jamming the sack (I put stuff like fleece pullovers, puffy jacket, etc. in it to provide soft bulk) in the hood keeps it in place and I don't loose it every time I roll over.

I do know this though... you only let out TOO MUCH air once or twice and have to add air before you learn what works just right. That is a pain in the backside when you goof.

OkKeith

[Kevin Hansen]

In looking at all the different bag/quilts available I've run across some discussion that states any down fill power above 800-850 is not worth the extra expense and actually loses it loft quicker than the lesser fill power.
True? Anyone have experience with this?

[Bowbenderpa01]

A few decent choices and guess it depends on personal experience.

My youngest is a mountain climber and after narrowing choices to either Feathered Friends or Western Mountaineering, she picked up a Western Mountaineering model.  It's been used on snowpack and extended hikes for two years and she absolutely loves it. 

[gradymaci]

Not Cheap but the Katabatic line is the best out, next would be a Zpacks..