Hill Shooters Wingspan/ Draw length

[swampthing]

A lot of times Jeff I just tap 26" when in precarious positions. Leverage is leverage, when it is gone you can't draw any further.

[Gil Verwey]

My wingspan is 75" and my draw length is 28.5 BOP which brings the broadhead to my bow hand knuckle.

Bob Wesley showed me the method he uses. I did it today and it was right on.

Bob takes the arrow and places the nock against the center of his chest with the arrow pointing away from him. Then he takes both hands and holds them against the arrow with his fingers against the shaft. Where your middle fingers end on the shaft is your approximate draw length.

I reach 28.5" using Bob Wesley's method. It seems very accurate for me.

Gil

[monterey]

WS 73

Actual draw 27 3/4

Yardstick 26 1/2

[GRS]

Wingspan69 70

Yardstick 26

Draw 26

Gerald

[Jim Wright]

My wingspan is 72" and draw length is 29", I have long arms. I shoot Toelke Super Ds, Classic Whips and a Curlew take-down recurve re-figured to a low wrist grip and have the same draw length with all of them. I suspect bow to bow variations in draw length come mostly from guys shooting high wrist grip recurves and I suspect a fair number of shooters who don't like longbows because they have had their teeth rattled gripped them this way as well.

[Hud]

73", 27.5"

[Rob DiStefano]

imho, there is no precise "wingspan to draw length" formula.  there are many factors to an optimum draw length, and what works for one person may not work for another.  what matters most is matching draw length to stick bow length, and afl's (american flat longbows, i.e. "hill style") will require longer lengths than any other stick bow style.

ymmv.

[dragonheart]

Thanks for all of the responses.  I was looking for the relationship between the wingspan and DL.  The measuring system using the yardstick to the breastbone sounds like gives a good indication of the ballpark for one's draw length.  

WS does not take the size of the chest into considerarion, where the yardstick method does.  Of course there could be some variation depending on grip on the bow.

[Rob DiStefano]

if you look at the human anatomy, the dimensional variations between the parts of the body that connect the shoulder to the finger tips, let alone include the chest area, can be vastly different from person to person.  then there's the matter of "form" ... that's a huge can of worms that can easily skew what we call "draw length".  as with arrow calculators, there's no precise way to calculate any of this stuff.  ball park, at best.

Bob Swineheart and Howard Hill looked different at full draw, they had nearly equal draw lengths, even though Bob was inches shorter. Howard Hill said that Bob Swineheart was a better size than he was for shooting a bow and arrow.

[Rob DiStefano]

it's been written a fair amount about 6'3" howard hill's short 28" draw length ...

[lpcjon2]

Would shooting 3 under compared to split finger(anchor points) give 3 under a shorter draw.

Part of the draw length issue also must land on the anatomy of a persons head and neck. I have quite a long point on, even though i anchor middle finger just back of the corner of my mouth. Some people can tilt their head forward and still get a solid anchor while others need to keep their head up a bit. Right handed I can stretch out and shoot more square to my shoulder line than left because,  my neck does not rotate to the left hand bow as easily resulting a more open stance, which gives me a more natural feel and shorter draw. Some people do not have the arm to want to bend at the wrist and elbow, they shoot better with things a bit straighter and probably prefer higher grips.  Lots of variables, I still say if one wants to shoot a standard Hill style bow, look at what Hill did with his as a guide and your results may vary, but it is a place to start.

[khardrunner]

I'm not sure he was looking for anything specific as would be needed for prescriptive advice. I think this is more about generalization and being able to show some correlation, which is easy to see given the data we have so far.

[jsweka]

Originally posted by Rob DiStefano:
imho, there is no precise "wingspan to draw length" formula.  there are many factors to an optimum draw length, and what works for one person may not work for another.  what matters most is matching draw length to stick bow length, and afl's (american flat longbows, i.e. "hill style") will require longer lengths than any other stick bow style.

ymmv.

Rob is right.
In my day job, I do a lot of statistical analysis for fisheries management.  So the number crunching geek in me took everyone's responses and and ran a linear regression of drawlength vs. wingspan.  Yes, there is a "statistically significant" trend that a longer wingspan yields a longer drawlength.  However, only 43% of the variation in drawlength was explained by wingspan.  The other 57% of the variation in drawlength would be due to othter factors as Rob has pointed out.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Okay fellow Hill Style enthusiasts. I am trying to obtain accurate data for a chart that gives a baseline for the wingspan and equal draw length shooting the Hill Style.  

what I'd like to know is what the difference between the draw length on a "Hill Style Bow" and any other bow is?

I know you guys have got your own fan club going, but i think specifying a draw length for a particular style bow is rather strange....of course this is excluding Korean and horse bows for obvious reasons.

In any event, there is no accurate data base for wing span to draw length. too many exceptions to form a rule. Rob D hit it on the nose.

[xp]

Wingspan 76"

Draw Length 28 1/2"

[dragonheart]

There is a similiar method that most people use in shooting this style of longbows.  Most people shoot with some bend in their arm, with the heel down on the grip.  

This leads to a shorter draw length in comparison to a pistol grip on a recurve.  As you mentioned the Korean and horse bows or looking at Japanese archers have a particular form or style for a particular type of bow.  It is an entire method of shooting.  Some guys will disagree, but Hill style tends to have particulars about the way this longbow is shot.          

I was just asking to see what others measure that shoot this style of longbow.  Wingspan looks like does not really give an accurate relationship to draw length.  

You bet, the fan club is growing it seems.  There is a resurgance of interest in straight, thick, limbed longbows known as "Hill style" longbows.

If I remember right Hill said that a 27" arrow was the best length for flight. He could have been talking about the shafts that were available to him at the time, but he shortened his draw a bit to get closer to optimal arrow flight. The question I always have, did that form adjustment aid him in his shooting ability? I cannot remember the Hill/Schulz numbers, Schulz was about the same as mine, which I forgot as well, but I do remember that we figured that I would have about a 25" draw if kept the same ratio as Hill. The yard stick rule does not always work because some folks are wide in the shoulder and short in the arm.

Originally posted by Rob DiStefano:
imho, there is no precise "wingspan to draw length" formula.  there are many factors to an optimum draw length, and what works for one person may not work for another.  what matters most is matching draw length to stick bow length, and afl's (american flat longbows, i.e. "hill style") will require longer lengths than any other stick bow style.

ymmv.

Rob,
I could be missing something here but I don't think anybody here is trying to nail down a precise formula to determine a "correct" draw length for a hill style bow....seems to be a discussion on different ways folks in the past determined a good place to start...and how the method correlated with Howard etal.

Interesting tho...a year ago (and back too the mid 60's) I pulled my bows (mostly too short extremely stacking Bear and Browning 'curves) between 31" and 32".  Now, after having adjusted to the straight grip - heel down I am comfortably and naturally pulling 27" consistently.

FWIW, I am now shooting 59# at my draw (compared to 53#) and as someone has mentioned above, that will also have an effect on your draw length.  I do not hold/hesitate much (if any) but have a much more fluid release upon touching anchor - a totally different style of shooting for me.

Bottom line here is I find it interesting how the methods correlate (seemingly) with the guys of yesteryear...it means little but is cool nonetheless.