Paper tuning problems....need help

[tking308]

This is my first experience paper tuning a recurve.  I'm shooting 56#. Gamegetter 340's cut to 31" with 100 gr brass inserts and 175gr field pts.  5" RW feathers. I shoot with the bow canted slightly to the right (tip points to about 1:00) I'm getting a consistent nock high tear very slightly right.  Right now my nock point is 1/2" above the shelf. Everything I've read says lower the nock point.  When I do, it gets worse.  The tear lengthens from about 1 1/2" to 3".  At this point I'm guessing it's my form.  I'm new to traditional archery so at this point, form is just what feels comfortable and hits the target consistently.  I don't have any problem putting arrows in a 4-6 inch group at 13 yards if I concentrate. (13 yards is the length I can shoot in my basement)  Anyone have any ideas.

[tking308]

Forgot to add...I have tried different points, 125gr and inserts, switched from glove to tab, tried shooting at 3ft then 6ft and then 9ft. I've also adjusted feather position from cock up to cock out.  None of these things have helped.

[Prairie Drifter]

if your canting your bow, it's a combination of nock position AND spine that's causing your problem, imho. Think about it this way, + is spine and nock point(up,down,side to side) IF the bow is shot vertical. However it's more like x if you cant the bow.Make sense? I may not have explained it the best, but try to visualize it that way.

[onewhohasfun]

1/2" is not very high really, may be bouncing off the shelf and giving a false nock high indication. 340's are pretty stiff. To avoid this start with at least 3/4" high and work your way down. Many bow and arrow combos shoot well with a 5/8" or more nock point.

[Night Wing]

I shoot split finger. One over, two under.

Since 1964, my nock set height has always been 5/8". I've never had a problem with this nock set height when tuning arrows.

[AkDan]

yup if you're getting a higher kick by lowering it, you're still too low at 1/2".   Raise it up.

Tiller and finger pressure will dictate where your nock goes.  You have control over one, you have none over the other.  

just for kicks, try really heavy top finger on a few shots...and than really heavy ring finger.  you SHOULD see a difference.

Originally posted by AkDan:
yup if you're getting a higher kick by lowering it, you're still too low at 1/2".   Raise it up.

This is what I am thinking to. The nocking point on both the bows I am shooting now is at 7/8". If you reaise it up and still have the tears them I would suspect that it could be a problem with your release. Paper tuning can be a real pain if you do not have a fairly good release.

Bisch

[Joshua Polland]

x3 on the low nock. I just paper tuned both my bows the other day (I had been using broadhead tuning, with mixed results). I ended up raising my nock 1/4" and I've never had my arrows fly so true. Almost the whole time it was showing that I should lower my nock. Give it a try, it can't hurt. Good luck.

[Zradix]

I agree with the above.

Try raising the nock point a bit and it sounds like you might be a bit weak in shaft...just means reduce the tip weight or shorten the shaft a bit..no biggie.

Get the nock point right first.

Good Luck!

[JimB]

I'll add,you may need 100 grs more point weight with arrows that stiff.If I were shooting carbons that stiff,that is what it would take.Your shaft diameter is bigger so maybe less point weight.You should try a 250 gr point and see what happens.

If that works but gives you too much overall weight,you would have to go with .400's,aluminum adapter and something like 175 gr point weight.

Work on the nocking point issues and spine issues one at a time.If you don't,you will drive yourself nuts.

[AkDan]

I did forget one other thing that will effect NP placement....how much or how little you heel a bow will effect it also.  It and tiller work together to a degree.   so if you're heeling hard, try a more straight wrist grip with your regular finger pressure, and do the same healing the bow.  

Its not so much about trying to change as it is giving you things to try so you see the relationship with it (finger pressure, hand pressure etc), and how your arrow flies.   you may or MAY NOT need to correct form issues.  Either way its a great learning experience when you find a bow like I've been tinkering with for the past handful of years now.

[Hud]

If you are paper tuning, then follow this link to a sponsors site. There is a simple explanation on what to do. Try this:

 http://elitearrows.com/proper-arrow/

[smokin joe]

Paper tuning is VERY sensitive to nock height. You can get it perfect, but it will take being very patient. A false high tear is very common, and confusing. Keep experimenting, you will be successful if you are patient.
The Elite Arrows website has the best paper tuning directions I have seen.

[tking308]

Thanks everyone for the input.  I may have a more basic issue.  I realized my brace height may not be set correctly.  I'm working on figuring that out before I drive myself more crazy shooting at paper :-)

[Zmonster]

I recently have been experimenting with paper tuning a bare shaft. Something I realized when trying to tune out a high nock was the placement of my paper stand and target. I kept getting a high nock that would not go away till I realized I wasnt shooting straight/parallel into the target. I was actually shooting down a bit. Once I corrected the position of the target and frame, I was getting perfect holes.

[AkDan]

something else to think about...and you'll noticed bareshafting/papertuning and group testing..is by changing your bh, you start effecting spine on arrows.  Its part of the tuning process, getting the bh right will get rid of (if close enough in spine to start), the lefts and rights.  

I prefer to get really close to a target and as long as I'm not grossly over/under spined, get my np on.  Than start tweaking shafts and bh to bring them in.  Basically play with spine and or length to get the bulk of the left/right out, than start fine tuning with my bh.   Knowing that if the bh is overly high/low you need to make an spine or arrow length adjustment.  

I prefer bareshafting and as I get closer to final tiller I back up.   shooting a bareshaft 30yards is not overly difficult with proper form and a tuned bow.  You'll know immediatly if somethings not right as you increase distance.     Normally I will stop at 10/15 yards and shoot for awhile but do enjoy testing arrows out to 30 and see just how close I am.  Gotta be the long dark cold winters effect      Note...do NOT start out at 30 yards LOL start a few feet away and work your way back as you bring things into final tuning.

[Osage61]

Originally posted by Prairie Drifter:
if your canting your bow, it's a combination of nock position AND spine that's causing your problem, imho. Think about it this way, + is spine and nock point(up,down,side to side) IF the bow is shot vertical. However it's more like x if you cant the bow.Make sense? I may not have explained it the best, but try to visualize it that way.

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 I just made up some new poplar arrows 55-60 spine, cut to 31.5, with right wing feathers, 125 gr point, for my right handed osage bow: 50@27 with a fast flight string. I shoot with the bow canted. The arrows were striking with the nock way right. I came to TG for information and I read the above post. The first thing I did was straighten the bow rather than canting it. Bang. Arrows are perfectly straight with deeper penetration!! This was the first time I have ever read about canting of the bow being an influence on the arrow. Guess I never really thought about it much. I ran the test with my other arrows of various lengths and various point weights. I'm getting great flight with optimum penetration. I think that by straightening my bow, I also straightened by body and am now getting better chest expansion with back flex. Seems to work for me. Interesting.