Short Draw for Big/Dangerous Game Advice

[RK808]

Aloha Gang,

Just thought I'd throw a question out there and hopefully I can learn from the collective experience on here.

I'm planning to do a wild cattle hunt.  I know some might think it's kinda dumb to shoot a cow, but for what it's worth let me state the case.  Hawaii has had wild cattle running around the island probably as early as the late 1700's.  You'd be surprised how smart cows are when born wild.  In most cases the wild cattle live in the deep rainforests and are harder to get up on than our sheep, goats, and pigs.  Chances are, I'll fail many times before even getting up on one of these critters.  Many a hunter have been run over and injured on these hunts.

I'm currently shooting a Stalker Recurve at 53lbs @ 26" draw (I actually draw more like 26.5").  I'm likely comfortable shooting up to 60lbs and maybe as high as 65lbs if need be.  I'll probably get a set of 60lbs limbs though.  

What's the gang's thoughts on what arrow weight I should be shooting for? Broadhead choice? Shot placement? etc.  My buddies with longer draws at the same weight seem to have far more power than I do and I'm finding the uniqueness of the situation is my short draw.  Do I even have a chance?  Just looking for anyone's $0.02 on the idea.  Hopefully it'll add up to a wealth of knowledge!

Thanks Gang!

[AZWarts]

Out of curriosity Are you hunting on the Big Island? I am from Hilo. Why dont you list what your current set up is right now. If you ever watch Fred Eichler, he shot a 2000lbs Asiatic Buffalo with a 55 lb recurve Easton Axis Arrows and a 125gr broadhead I believe. Don't qoute me on it and please correct me if I am wrong but that buffalo only went 30 yards..
Also, what kind of arrow do you want to shoot?

[RK808]

Yes, I will be hunting on the Big Island.  I am also from Hilo side, but work on Oahu.  

Current setup : 53lbs @ 26" draw Stalker Recurve.  Easton Axis 500s with 175 gr Magnus two blade up front.  Total arrow weight 460 gr.  I love the axis shaft and will probably stick with it, but definitely open to ideas.

About Eichler's buffalo, that's the thing!  He definitely has much more draw length than me.  So somehow I have to compensate in draw weight and/or arrow weight for my short draw.  Being a small guy is great for stalking, but man I feel handicapped when it comes to stickbow performance.

[AZWarts]

Maybe you have heard of my familys buisness. Carlsmith Law Firm. And that is a good point about his draw length becuase it is so long. You could add brass inserts which would give you almost 300 grains up front. This will weaken your spine though.How long are your arrows? If they are longer than you need them to be then you can cut them which will make up for some of the lost spine.

You also don't need as much, that arrow is designed with the small diameter shaft to increase penetration. I do not know how much of a difference they make penetration wise but I imagine that they are more efficient than others

[Whip]

While draw length does affect arrow speed, certainly you have a chance.  I remember reading that the difference in arrow speed for bows of equal weight shooting the same arrows was about 4 feet per second on average.  So if your buddy has a 28" draw he ends up with an arrow that is about 8 feet per second faster (and thus has more energy) than yours if all other factors are equal.  Bump up your bow weight a bit to compensate and you're right back with him.  

Whether or not that is enough to shoot wild cattle?  I have no idea.  Heavier bows are sure an advantage on large game of any kind, so if you can go up to 60 - 65 you will be better off.  Heavy arrows with a two blade single bevel head will also help.

[Stryder]

If I was hunting wild cattle, I'd go with a heavier bow, much heavier arrows, and a single bevel broadhead.  My current set-up for elk is a 58# BW PL X, 700-grn arrow, and Abowyer Wapiti broadheads.  Best of luck.

[pdk25]

Yeah, Fred's setup has quite a bit more energy than yours does at his draw length.  I think most experts feel that even his setup was on the light side for a big Buff.  Don't know for sure what you need for your wild cattle.  Most likely quite a bit less.

[Friend]

Assuming the Shelf is 3/16” past center and the bow is 60#@26.

Victory VForce HV300
Length - ~27.75”
Insert – 150 gn
Broadhead -  300 grain TuffHead
Total wt – 658 (11.0 gpp)
33% Ultra-EFOC

[Ragnarok Forge]

I would crank that arrow up over 650 grains and work for EFOC.  Dangerous game is no place to go light on arrows.  As for adding bow weight.  It is a great idea if you can shoot it accurately.  If not stick with what you have and crank up the arrow weight.  I would also use a razor sharp two blade in a single bevel design.  With short draw lengths you want to optimize your penetration as much as possible.

[ChuckC]

No matter the draw length, it comes down to speed of arrow and arrow weight, once the arrow leaves the bow.  If you can achieve a reasonable arrow speed using a reasonably heavy arrow, you can do anything.

I think we put too much emphasis on bow weight in our descriptions.  Bow weight is an indicator, but 5 bows of the same weight will deliver 5 different arrow speeds.
ChuckC

[Greg Skinner]

My draw length is about the same as yours and I shoot Hill bows in the 52#-55# range, so I understand the need to maximize your arrow setup.  I like carbons that are at least 650 grain for elk. I also try to keep a high FOC percentage, so that means 100 grain brass inserts up front and points that are at least 260 grains.  I use 55-75 GTs or 400 series and cut them to 28.5 to get good flight with the heavier front end.  160 grain grizzly and 100 grain steel adaptor gives me the point weight I need.

Obviously if you can go up to 60# in draw weight and still shoot it accurately without short-drawing that will give you some additional punch.  Just remember that going up in poundage will not gain you anything if you short draw it - better to shoot what you can easily and comfortably get to full draw and load up your arrows.

[Bob Morrison]

I know 26", go 300 if under 50#, 55# do 400 up front, nothing in the shaft other than a brass insert, 300 bh 100 brass. Lightest shaft you can get that will tune for you...

[Bob Morrison]

I know 26", go 300 if under 50#, 55# do 400 up front, nothing in the shaft other than a brass insert, 300 bh 100 brass. Lightest shaft you can get that will tune for you...

[Bob Morrison]

Sorry about that,,, Just trying to make a point:<))

[RK808]

Awesome gang!  What a wealth of knowledge!  It's great since not many folks around where I live have actual experience taking down bigger game with a stick.  

Looks like a heavy arrow is the consensus and I will shoot for that with a ton of FOC.  A solid sharp two-blade as well.  

Gonna hit the weights to get comfortable on a higher draw weight and place that shot trying to avoid the heavy bone structure.  

Thanks Gang!

[East Coast archer]

RK

Listen to Bowbldr, he knows what he speaks.  He was using high FOC arrows before "it was the norm."  He also builds a mean bow  

[RK808]

Thanks East Coast!  Yes, I did get a chance to shoot one of his creations.  Didn't get a whole lot of time with it, but from that short time I could gather that it was likely a bit faster than anything else I've shot, decently smooth on the draw and quiet!  
Just perfect to get advice from industry leaders!  Should make life easier as long as I don't get run over hunting one of these.

[Sixby]

In the future you may consider haveing a bowyer build you a draw specific bow that will maximize at your draw length. They can never make up for the loss of inches but the bow will certainly outperform a generic 28 in draw bow. I build draw specific bows for short draw archers and there are several other bowyers that do the same.

God bless you, Steve