Archers Paradox ????

[david janssen]

How many yds. does it take for an arrow to straighten out? Wood vs. Carbon? Thanks for the opinions.

[Mike Orton]

Dave,
I believe that to be a combination of several factors.
1. Arrow spline
2. Center cut or no center cut on the bow riser
3. Weight Foward of center on the arrow (similar to spline
4. Smoothness of archer's release (operator error)
5. Amount of influence the feathers have upon spin

Probably others

Probably does not help you....

[**DONOTDELETE**]

carbon recovers faster, dont know how many feet.. My bow with ash shafts topped w/160grn snuffer's around 750grn and in paper @ 5yards jusy a hair upperleft... I'm happy knowing that....

[Bjorn]

Part of my criteria for properly tuned bow/arrow is for paradox to disappear.

[Grey Taylor]

I could be wrong (it's happened before) but I think the only way for paradox to disappear is for your shelf to be cut to the point that the center of your arrow aligns with the center of your bow.  If the shelf is cut any less then it is a physical necessity for the arrow to shoot "around" the bow and experience Archer's Paradox.

Guy

[robtattoo]

And you'd need to use a release. The action of the string rolling off your fingers will always put a lateral movement into the equasion. Even then, at the point of release, th nock end of the arrow will start to move before the point end, creating compression within the shaft & therefore some kinda flex. If it could be eliminated in the lateral plane, ie; with a release aid, you'd still get it in the vertical plane, as with a compound. The only way you could theoretically 'solve' paradox would be to shoot the arrow through a tight fitting tube that would eliminate any flexion in the shaft itself.

[david janssen]

Thanks for all your opinions.

[gordonf]

I shoot self-bows in which the arrow pass is not cut anywhere near to center. I have an indoor range of 12 yards and my arrows have straightened by the time they hit the bale.

[aromakr]

David:
The speed in which paradox diminishes with wood arrows depends on the species of wood its made of. Generaly speaking soft woods, Cedar, pine, sitka spruce, doug fir, poplar, and etc. will recover quicker than the hardwoods, Birch, Ash, Maple, purple heart and etc. There is always some sort of trade off with wood shafts. You need to decide what you can live with and what you can't.
Bob

[poekoelan]

aromakr,
Do you think that is because the soft woods are lighter in weight or is it some other reason? I am thinking that lighter arrows recover faster but I could be wrong.

[Jeff Strubberg]

Paradox doesn't disappear...ever.

An arrow is subject to pressure at the moment of release...and it is never 100% behind the nock, not even with a release.  Even if it were, the difference in mass between the point and nock end of the shaft would force the shaft to bend because of inertia.  Much better that the shaft bend in a predictable direction.  It's about controlling paradox and working with it, not trying to eliminate it.

Wood oscillates more noticably than carbon.  Aluminum seems to be on par with wood.  

Honestly, I can't see a reason to worry about paradox in flight.  Reducing noodling on impact would have a much greater impact on the efficiency of your setup.

[aromakr]

poekoelan:
Soft woods are just more responsive to recovery, I think its due more to the nature of the fibers than weight, but that just my thoughts someone might have more information on the subject.
Bob

[Mark Baker]

Jeff is correct...paradox always occurs as a result of acceleration.   Proper tuning is simply managing the paradox by selecting the right spine.   There is a noticeable difference, though, in shaft material and how quickly they recover from the paradox.   I shoot big fletchings and that helps too.

[Mike Orton]

I agree with what you said above Mark, but I'd add that Paradox also occurs from deceleration.  It is the severe change in velocity that creates the paradox effect upon the shaft.  What we as hunters attempt to achieve is a controlled paradox effect as the arrow leaves the bow and as little paradox as possible once that arrow hits the targeted animal.  Bending of the arrow at the moment of impact steals energy away from the cutting edge and reduces penetration.  That is largely why we shoot high Forward of center arrows; we want all that mass in the front of the arrow near the cutting surface thus avoiding the weakness of the arrow shaft to steal energy when bone needs to be breached.

I personally enjoy shooting center cut longbows (Black Widow) with stiff Axis 300 shafts and loaded with 350 to 400 grains up front.  The arrow does not have to bend much to get around the riser and is quite stiff at the moment of impact.