"Skinny Strings"

[limbolt]

Love the SBD D10,quiet, noticably faster and great people to do business with.  

[Bjorn]

Adam and I have been fans of reduced strand strings for several years, main reason is a quiet shot. Recently we have also gone from 6 strands to 8 strands of D 10 for our 50-55# bows they accept more abuse and last longer.

[Medley]

D10 is good, no doubt about it. But I think you can do even better with ultracam.

[LBR]

FWIW I've been tinkering with strings in various materials--skinny and not--for around 20 years.  

Skinny strings certainly aren't anything new--Mr. Dan Quillian was advocating them when 450+ was still 450 Premium, and original FF was still the standard for "high performance" strings--back in the late 80's, I think?.

With the way every improvement that's been made to materials since B-35 seems to add another 10 or so fps to the shot, we should have traditional bows breaking the 300 fps mark by now! (insert sarcasm smile here)

Somehow though, a hickory selfbow with a 14-16 strand dacron string shooting 10 gpp will still shoot 165+ fps even with a fairly lousy release, and 200 fps with 10 gpp is still the "holy grail" with even the most modern recurves and longbows touting carbon lams, foam cores, and super-sonic strings.

I've made well over ten thousand strings (quit counting several years ago) and been involved with two sucessful string making videos, besides talking to lots of string makers, accomplished tournament shooters and hunters, several of the folks at BCY, and tons of regular folks like myself.  I feel comfortable saying I've put my fair share of time in with strings.  I'm not an expert by any stretch, but I'm not a beginner either.

I've seen lots of claims made by some fairly well-known folks (not string makers), ranging from flemish strings are "dangerous" to a string causing a bow limb to twist to giant performance differences just between flemish and endless.  Makes me a bit of a skeptic I reckon, because I know none of these hold water.  

Anyhow...the point remains the same.  The answer to the question is a definate "maybe" as far as getting a big difference in results from different strings--performance or otherwise.  What I've seen over the years is primarily a Ford/Chevy/Dodge type of argument--which one is best depends on who you ask.

I've been tinkering with the new 8190 lately.  12 strands makes a tiny string--really tiny--about the same size as 6 strands of Dynaflight '97.  It's quiet, at least on my longbow--almost quiet enough to hunt with without any silencers...but it's not a lot different in that respect than every other string I've tried on it...8125, 450+, Dynaflight '97 in various strand counts.  It's the strongest 100% Dyneema material on the market--very durable, very low stretch/creep--but again, not a huge difference vs. 8125, Dynaflight '97, 450+, etc.

The biggest difference I've noticed is when switching from dacron to a HMPE ("fast flight") type material--usually the hand shock is greatly reduced (I can't deal with hand shock).  Other than that...not so much.

Easiest thing to do is try different things and see what you like.  Lots of folks don't mind spending a ton of money trading/collecting different bows...spend a fraction of that tinkering with a string here and there...you might just be surprised at what you learn.

Chad

[LBR]

As a side note, BCY doesn't offer Dynaflight '10 anymore.  They do offer Force 10, which is basically the same material with a different wax content (according to BCY).

[Dawnpatrol]

If you want to increase arrow performance and quiet down the bow than a skinny string is a good idea. If you like louder slower bows well then that is your prerogative.

[TxAg]

I'm still curious how they make a bow quieter. Anyone care to enlighten me. I'm genuinely curious.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by TxAg:
I'm still curious how they make a bow quieter. Anyone care to enlighten me. I'm genuinely curious.

the low strand count adds some measure of "spring" to the string.  a shock absorber of sorts.  there is no substitute for doing your owning bowstring testing, and that includes deciding on a string fiber and strand count for a particular bow - each will have its own likes and dislikes.  let the bow tell you what makes it happiest.

[Brock]

interested in seeing a mechanical release chrono of these huge increases in arrow speed....I know myself I can see fluctuations on the chrono of 10fps easily with a slightly different release, being a hair overdrawn, etc trying to do it with marks on an arrow shaft...there is always something different on every pull.

[Medley]

Txag- I shoot ultracam strings which after a day of shooting, and the string settles, it flat out has no creep/stretch.

I know my bow is ALOT quieter with ultracam than d97, and I truly believe that is why. No stretch, takes the twang out.

Brock, I know exactly what you are saying. I have noticed the same things that you mentioned.

But, I have shot the same bow using d97 and using ultracam, many many shots with each string. Also, many different tabs, gloves, and arrows.

The performance difference has been both significant and obvious in my dealings.

You guys should talk to rick Barbee here, great Guy to talk to, lots of knowledge on the topic

[JamesKerr]

I have tried skinny strings, and they work great! That said I just prefer a fatter string. I usually make my strings from 14 to 16 strands. This gives me a perfect nock fit and good arrow speed. I have never seen the major speed increase some people claim to get with skinny strings. I usually get about a 3-4 fps increase going from a 14 strand string to an 8 strand string.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Brock:
interested in seeing a mechanical release chrono of these huge increases in arrow speed....I know myself I can see fluctuations on the chrono of 10fps easily with a slightly different release, being a hair overdrawn, etc trying to do it with marks on an arrow shaft...there is always something different on every pull.

i seriously doubt seeing that much increase in arrow speed between 8 and 16 strand strings.  maybe a few to mid single digit fps at most.  arrow speed is not, should not, be a prime reason for low strand count bowstrings.

[trad_in_cali]

I'm not sure about speed, but I shoot a 6-strand SBD skinny string on my 40# Tomahawk. It made it a different bow from its original 16 or 18 strand string (That's what they ship with). It's more quiet, and much less vibration after the shot (yes, it did have some). Less 'thwang'.
I just ordered a leftiesRus bikini string with silencers for my Titan. It will be 8-strands. We'll see. Both are sponsors here.
Marco

[Brock]

Originally posted by Rob DiStefano:
 

Originally posted by Brock:
interested in seeing a mechanical release chrono of these huge increases in arrow speed....I know myself I can see fluctuations on the chrono of 10fps easily with a slightly different release, being a hair overdrawn, etc trying to do it with marks on an arrow shaft...there is always something different on every pull.

i seriously doubt seeing that much increase in arrow speed between 8 and 16 strand strings.  maybe a few to mid single digit fps at most.  arrow speed is not, should not, be a prime reason for low strand count bowstrings. [/b]

my thoughts as well Rob....I find it hard to believe that big of an actual increase from a tuned setup with dacron to skinny string....my experience has been pretty negligible with the fast flight type strings for most part....some slight differences but nothing worth making me choose one over the other.  I really dont care about speed....if arrow makes a thud hitting target...flies true...and I dont notice any extreme sounds coming from shot...then I am good.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Brock:
 

Originally posted by Rob DiStefano:
 

Originally posted by Brock:
interested in seeing a mechanical release chrono of these huge increases in arrow speed....I know myself I can see fluctuations on the chrono of 10fps easily with a slightly different release, being a hair overdrawn, etc trying to do it with marks on an arrow shaft...there is always something different on every pull.

i seriously doubt seeing that much increase in arrow speed between 8 and 16 strand strings.  maybe a few to mid single digit fps at most.  arrow speed is not, should not, be a prime reason for low strand count bowstrings. [/b]

my thoughts as well Rob....I find it hard to believe that big of an actual increase from a tuned setup with dacron to skinny string....my experience has been pretty negligible with the fast flight type strings for most part....some slight differences but nothing worth making me choose one over the other.  I really dont care about speed....if arrow makes a thud hitting target...flies true...and I dont notice any extreme sounds coming from shot...then I am good. [/b]

i do care about arrow speed, up to a point - but i won't nit pick a few fps.  

[jlnft]

I shoot a "kinda skinny string"(8-strand of UltraCam). Like you Rob, I really just care about "quiet". Quiet is good!!

Fast is nice, but if the target is gone(because of "TWANG") when the arrow arrives....then want have you really gained?

Some people may have a quiet bow at 14-16 strands, but for me 6-8 strands works very well.

Joe

[3Bears]

I have been using a 10 strand on a 55 lb Tall Tines recurve and I am having problems with noise and string stretch. I'm going back to a 14 or a 16 strand string.

[LC]

Well heres my take on skinny strings. I've been making my own endless skinnies for several years now and can't see me ever going back to B50. And let me add I'm the worlds worst to accept change. I hated the original FF strings and swore I'd never use them.

 But the benefits of using a HP (high preformance) strings are in ALL catagories. I think the "huge" speed increases can usually be traced back to previously used poorly made tuned   equip such as to long a string or overly twisted, over built, excessive string silencing and or too tight a nock fit.I'd state my true chorongrahped speed increases but some would say no way that's impossible. But with that said it's no where near the huge increases some have seen. I've spent too much money on HP string materials that I truthfully thought were junk. It's a funny thing cheap string material stretches but expensive material creeps! Lets just say alot of expensive string material just keeps getting longer!  And then theres the one final thought why I think bow string makers hate them and why some folks think there is no big difference. That is it takes several attempts of string making for a individual bow to come up with the PERFECT starting length for a individual bow and thus shooter. I had my jig marked for B50 and could whip them out no problem. First several strings I made out of HP string material with my old lengths were way off and lets just say twisting it up IS NOT the answer to get the benefit of a HP skinny string. JMHO your mileage may vary.

[L82HUNT]

Originally posted by 3Bears:
I have been using a 10 strand on a 55 lb Tall Tines recurve and I am having problems with noise and string stretch. I'm going back to a 14 or a 16 strand string.

If you are having a problem with stretch then its the wrong material.  10 strands of most of the newer materials would not be moving on a 55# bow.

[lpcjon2]

I just got a R/D bow that has a skinny string on it, it just doesnt feel right to me. It kinda scares me a little. But its made for the bow so I shoot it.