Horses and longbows?

[Lost Arra]

Question for the cowboys:
How do you carry your traditional bow while on horseback

a) when packing in to a camp? I would assume a pvc tube-type case.

b) while hunting when you might need a little quicker access?

[Missouri Sherpa]

I use a two piece takedown and carry it in a plains type quiver with my arrows, hanging from the saddle horn on the off side.  I made a padded kevlar bow quiver to carry the bow strung up but did not like the larger size and never got used to using it.  If I am hunting I just carry the bow in my hand.  Most of the time when I am riding I have a string of pack horses in my right hand so carrying a bow in my hand isn't any issue in comparison.  You just need a good mount that you can steer with leg cues.

[Elk whisperer]

you can use a sling, I like a bow hook on my belt and just rest my hand on it, but most times I just carry it in my hand

[NBK]

Not as much experience, but last falls ride in the Zirkel wilderness had my one peice longbows (2 of them) in their bow socks and ductaped together.  I then placed the bows under the saddle part of my right leg and tied both ends to the front and back of the saddle.  With the bows parallel with the horse I was able to guide them through some pretty thick pines and wasn't worried about overhead branches, etc.  That said, I'm going to take a takedown on the next trip!

[Lost Arra]

John: you obviously have a LOT more horse experience than I have so steering with "leg cues" would be a stretch for me. I'm more of a "both hands on the wheel" rider and I don't want my bow to become a riding crop! I'm going to hunt, not join the rodeo.  

[arrow flynn]

i just learned to ride my friend has a mustang and a quarterhorse i prefer the mustang seems to have better footing in difficult country . the last time we rode and a deer popped up in front of us the horses freaked .i f i wouid have had my bow i never could have gotten off the shot . im obviosly not a good enough rider or the horse needs more work ?anybody have some advice?

[Alexander Traditional]

I know people in Colorado and have been hunting up there quite a bit. The outfitters we know usually reserve the more gentle horses for the unexperienced riders. These horses don't have a lot of get up and go,but they are much less likely to spook.

[Scott Teaschner]

This question comes up every year about this time when people are planning their trips out west. It is a valid concern and usaly less experianced riders ask this question (and its a good one). There is little out there as far as info or things to help the rider carry their long bow or recurve.

 I know I may have people come back and tell me diffrent but I dont care its my oppinion. First there is not a real good answer for carrying such a long item. But I will say this by holding your bow in hour hand or straping it to you is by far the worst way. It is a acciedent waiting to happen it just may cost you your life PERIOD! I dont care how good of a rider you are or how big your ego is it is just bad. I will not argue I am simply stating what I have learned professionaly.

 Just with getting on a horse comes risk. You start adding objests to get in the way just ups it. I had searched high and low and could not find any one building scabbards for long bows or recurves. So I started designing my own. The one pictured is the prototype and it has served well. I still use it. My new ones have zippers instead of snaps.

These bow are hard to ballance do to there light weight but I come up with what I feel is the best. I first worried about the tip of the bow hanging lower than my foot being a problem. I have not seen any thing go wrong if you hit a stump it just pushes out of the way. You can raise it but you run the risk of hang up and it makes mounting and dismounting more dificult. The quiver is covered so even while walking your horse through the timber I have had no hang ups.

When you are in rough country you need both your hands. Wrecks happen and it is split second. If you think your going to save your bow and controll a horse tell the outfitter you prefer to walk in. It just aint going to happen.

 Arrow flynn what you just explained can happen to a seasoned horse or a green horse. Horses for thousands of years are accustomed to fleeing when danger presents itself. We will never breed that out of them. Some horse are better than others and handle situations different just as humans do under stressfull situations. Your horse has a mind of his own and you just might not be on the same page! Never attempt to shot from horseback and always get things situated with your horse before jeking your bow. I mean your off he is tied up or some one is holding him.

 Again I will not argue this subject I feel I left some sound advice. You do what you see fit cause your going to any way. Good Luck!  


 

[Lost Arra]

Thanks Scott
Good info for all of us that hunt with bows but rarely on horseback.

[lablover]

Very sound advice Scott.

[Jack Shanks]

My 2 cents.

 After a few horseback, back pack sheep and goat hunts with strung bows I broke down and bought a 2 pc longbow for those type of trips. On horseback my bow and quiver fit nicely in a 3Rivers arrow PVC case tied to the saddle horn. It can be quickly assembled once game is spotted or a stalk is planned. On steep mountain hunts I want both hands free for holding walking sticks. A strung bow tied to my backpack still was a pain. The 2 pc takedown longbow inside the pack works much better. I only wish I had done it sooner.

[Kentucky Jeff]

Obviously Scott has way more experience with hunters and horses than I so you should listen to him.

As a flatlander who rides and foxhunts on horseback regularly (English Style) I will try to give you folks who do not ride but want to go out west and plan on using an outfitter with horses some advice...

The first thing is you need to take some riding lessons and get conditioned to riding.  It doesn't really matter what kind of riding instruction you can find--English or Western.  Riding is riding and you either have a "seat" (balance) and understand the basics of keeping your heels down and how to maintain your balance in the saddle on steep uphill and downhill trails or you don't.  There are small differences between western and english riding but don't for a minute believe a western saddle with a horn will be any better than an english saddle sans horn.  The horn won't help you one iota when all your weight is past your balance point going over the head of the horse.  So take some lessons where you can find them and tell the instructor what your goal is (to learn to ride) and how much time you have before you head out west.  Riding is something you can never learn all there is to know and most everyone can benefit from professional help.   Your goal is to learn the basics of mounting, starting, stopping how to post at a trot.  How to ride in a two point/three point position, how to stay vertical on steep up/downhill slopes.  How to manage reins and most of all how to keep your heels down in the stirrups.  

The other thing about riding is it uses muscles that you don't use for much of anything else.  Therefore, if you go out west and an outfitter throws you on a horse for a few hours and you aren't in riding shape you WILL be so sore you can barely walk the next day.  This is NOT going to make for an optimal hunting experience especially out west where you move A LOT!   So you want to also take lessons to get into riding shape and avoid that VERY painful experience.  Trust me on this....if you don't believe me go take an hour lesson.  Then you can share with us all how wonderful you feel the next day!   Imagine doing that your first time out on a horse for 4 hours.  Followed by a 4 mile stalk...Followed by another 4 hour horse ride...

Good luck with that.

In terms of horses that "spook" at deer and other unexpected things.  That happens with the best horses you can ride.  FWIW, the correct term is "shy".   But you just need to learn how to keep your reins short, pay attention to your horse, and as always, keep your heels down and stay in the center of the horse.  If you do that everything else will fall into place.

People get into trouble riding horses because they don't pay attention and get lazy.  Riding a horse is not a passive activity.  You aren't sitting on a couch.  You have to "RIDE" the animal and just like driving a car it means being alert and paying attention and also making the corrections/adjustements you need to make to control the animal as you move through terrain and hazards.   Plop your butt in the saddle and you are likely not going to stay there.  For one thing a good horse will almost instantly know he has someone on his back that doesn't know what the hell they are doing.  When a horse figures that out (and the can often tell just by how you get on their back and handle yourself) he can make your life miserable because he will try to get away with all kinds of crap an experienced rider will immediately correct.  Some horses will take care of you....but many will not.  

So take some lessons and get in shape.  It will pay off in spades on the hunt and remove a possible source of massive discomfort and anxiety and allow you to enjoy the hunt.

Lastly, In terms of how you pack your bow the only advice I can give is to put it in something a bomb proof as possible.  I've seen horse ruin rifle stock strapped to their backs after a rider dismounts and ties up the horse just by reaching back and biting the wood!  I had outfitters tell me how horses have rolled on guns in saddle scabbards and broken synthetic stocks!    So however you do it make it in something that is stout for...70" one piece longbows might need to be packed in on the pack horse is a sturdy tube of some sort.  

YMMV

[Cyclic-Rivers]

Maybe not what you are looking for but...

I just make my wife carry my bow while I take the easy way out!!!!

 

[Kentucky Jeff]

Charlie,

That's called the "Squaw Method" and is preferred in many cultures!  

(Please don't tell Mrs. Janssen--that sounds Swedish/Norwegian and they don't come from such a culture...)

[[email protected]]

This is a bit off topic but good info to know.

NEVER, EVER use an outfitter that uses rented stock.  If they don't own their own horseflesh then look for another outfitter/guide.

Bob

[stalkin4elk]

2 piece longbow purchased just for this reason,after using one piece bows. The broken down bow is placed in a Safarituff case strapped to a Safarituff Duiker quiver and hung vertically from the swells and stabilized at a lower D ring.All in front of me and out of my(and horses) way yet still ready in about one minute or less.
This has worked very well.
Scott, your set up would be even better with a 2 piece bow. We constantly have logs down from all the beatle kill so I don't like anything hanging low.
I've had my share of horse,dirtbike ,and mountain bike wrecks and don't want any cheese cutters slicing my neck or sharp harpoons through my ribs. If you crash, your body weight and impact velocity provides the power...either end of the arrow or bow that you have the misfortune of landing on will stab you.
As mentioned there is no great way but this works for me and is reasonably safe.
It would be a lot better to remove broadheads while riding...
Be safe, prevent accidents and you can enjoy some of the most memorable trips.

[arrow flynn]

thank you all for the information i dont plan on shooting a gun or bow from horseback now having more guts than brains i think will get me me in trouble .

[Scott Teaschner]

When I guide sometimes it is just a plain nightmare. If people would take the time to get lessons like Jeff said it would defenitly make it more enjoyable for both. The biggest problem Ive seen is the guys just dont want to listen. They sit there and let the horse do what he wants. Riding is an active sport you have to be more than the saddle. I guide off my own horses and they are good if a guy is not going to listen and sits like a sack of potatoes guess what he is walking. If he sores my horse up which can happen in short order that horse may be done for a week or in some cases longer. Your horse are your life in the back country they get taken care of first. I never let my hunters even wear a day pack while rideing it puts the rider off balance. I tie a piece of rope on the pack and sling them from the horn or tie in the back. You have to be carefull of things you will get hung up on and things you can fall on. You can be singing Happy Trails one minute and the next praying to god you never crawled up on that beast in the blink of an eye. Pictures of the west in our minds can be of the romantic kind. The cowboy and mountains are what people dream about all over the world. Bottom line is it is dangerous work its cold long days and sometimes just plain miserable. Late season rifle hunting in Montana is saddeling horses at 4:30 am at minus 10 saddles stiff from the sweat freezing from the day before. I bring saddle pads and briddels in my guide tent to keep them from freezing but you can never dry out the pads. I have hunters who have just quit on me after a few days do to the elements and rough country. It can chew up the best and spit you out it is serious buisness! But that is why i love it and I will regret the day my body no longer allows me to do it. Guiding is one way to extend time in the hills but it is a hard job making sure you bring your client back safe every night. I usally just guide rifle which is a little more dangerous because your client can shoot you when you tell him he is walking!

[Don_G]

Truly great advice, bob.

Scott, I'm new to trad, but have been packing in on horses many years. To work on the trails I ride you'd need to tilt that scabbard up under your leg. Our problem is not so much stumps, but blowdowns across the trail. That's a beautiful piece of work, though.

Makes me glad I got the TD!

[Converml]

I use a scabbard as well. I had an Amish harness guy make it for me. I agree with Scott if you want to enjoy the experience get some beforehand exposure with and being around horses somehow. Horses know who they have on them better than kids know what they can get away with and with whom, and they will. The mare I guide with is a solid bomb proof horse nothing scared her , busses , dogs biting at her heels etc. then she had a bad experience with a newbie on her when she encountered a llama, the client got afraid she sensed therefore these were horrible creatures and reacted accordingly. she is still bomb proof unless you pull the pin on a llama and toss it under her. So many clients though don't listen get sore take their feet out of the stirrups ,start daydreaming, or just start letting the horse ride them that if thankfully nothing surprises the horse and client on that trip , you still have to work with the horse after the trip to remind him of their responsibilities for the next outing. So yes please do your guide a favor and your horse a favor and listen to the guide. He really wants what is best for you and especially the horse. Just like kids letting them have their way all the time spoils them the same with horses, clients think the horses like it when you give them their way and let them be the boss but in reality they want to know they have someone they can trust and is leading them but that doesn't mean they aren't going to push things to see what they have on their back to determine if they are the ones in charge and for horses  that's not something they want to have to do but will if they feel they are better qualified. Not something you want is someone weighing around 1000 lbs with a strong flight instinct feeling they are the most capable one around. That beng said there is nothing more exhilarating than hunting ,horses, and rock faced snow caps to realize what we have to be thankful for. Just listen to the poor guide it's a terrible thing to make a grown man cry.