To support the local archery/bowhunting shop or not

[Pipefish]

This past weekend, I went to a local archery center and got my string re-served, renocked, and a new arrow rest put on the shelf (I had a flipper before). I was so excited. I went in so happy to have found this place, run by a single man, who has clearly dedicated himself to archery and bowhunting and even has target and 3d ranges to practice on.

It also looks like a great place to meet local bowhunters (there's a trad night once a week    ).I was sold on the place the minute I walked in, convinced I should be spending my money (and my time) at a knowledgeable and community-centered place like this. And was very trusting of everyone as I was eager to learn the trade and get ready for the spring season.

The problem is: My arrow rest fell off within a half hour of it being put on. I then realized the vertical 'matchstick' under the plate was so high my arrow was not hitting it.

I also noticed that when shooting my arrows at 5 yards, the impact of the arrow was very downwards. I asked the owner if that was normal and he told me to just back up the target so the arrow could stabilize.  After doing some research it sounds like this was a tuning issue with the nock...

I am bummed. I was hoping to find a place I could just trust. I was eager to order my new bow through him, and willing to pay extra because of the person-to-person help setting it up, but now I am unsure it's worth the extra cost.

Do you guys/gals expect better service at your local shops? Is this the standard? And is it moral to use his range (there are modest fees) without supporting the shop side of his business at the same time?

side note: the bonus of this is I am learning to tune my bow myself - and finding the tools are rather inexpensive compared to service fees.

[lpcjon2]

Learning to do your own work is a reward that has no limit. Use the range if you want, I make my own in the yard. And go on Trad night and learn what you can from others.

  Its your money if you are not satisfied with the work dont have them do it. use the excuse my buddy does it for free or I do my own work now. He wont notice the small stuff if its a busy shop. Buy a set of heads or feathers once in a while if you have guilt.JMHO

[m midd]

I support my local shop by buying what i can there. They usually have small things i use like rest material or field points or a bag target. I do all my own work to my bows and build my own arrows.. Learn what you can and do your own nock heigth adjustments and  rest replacements. You will do better in the long run by knowing what each adjustment does for arrow flight

[Scott357]

I went to a local shop the other day to look for some 200 gr field points and was asked why I wanted them so heavy. I made the mistake of saying I want to hunt with a recurve this fall and was treated to a lecture about how I shoulnt be hunting with a recurve because there will be a lot of wounded deer running around where I hunt.

I wont be going back there.

I got a similar lecture at the local gun shop when I asked for stuff to feed my flintlock rifle.

Its amazing that humantity was able to survive without the use of compound bows and mechanical broadheads and belted magnum rifles to feed themselve for all of those years!

I dont begrudge anyone who uses modern stuff for hunting. The older I get the more I like simple stuff that some folks call primitive.

[Drewster]

I try to support my local archery shop, but they just don't have much in the way of trad gear or products.  I buy a few things from them when I can.  I like to support local businesses.

I think its very honorable of you to want to support your local shop.  Use their services and buys their products when you can, but certainly don't feel guilty about the situation if they don't serve your needs.  You might tactfully give the owner some feedback.  If he's a good business man, he will appreciate it and try to serve you better.  If not, then move on.

It's good to learn all you can about setting up and tuning your own equipment.  Helps you understand things better as well as being rewarding.

All the best to you and by all means, have fun!

[critman]

It's not hard to learn the basics of working on your own bow. I agree with both guys about the rewards of being able to do it yourself! My local shop are a great bunch of guys, but don't know much about traditional bows and/or setting them up. I was even told I would never get good arrow flight using carbons and not many trad shooters use them. Ha! Some shops or more interested in selling a $900 compound with all the gadgets than a dozen nocks or inserts. Maybe give him another chance and if still dissatisfied, don't go back. You can build a great target with a few hay bales, just be sure and shoot into the top or bottom, not the sides.

[Missouri CK]

I would say this is a microcosm of a larger issue seen here at trad gang.  If my trad friends came over and I asked them to set my bow up I'm not sure it would work well.  Not because they don't know anything. Instead it would just be different than how I need it.  Your local guy may just know how he needs it. Not how you need it set up.  Not saying you can't use advice from someone else.  It just may not work for you.  Learn from the others. Buy stuff u need but experiment for yourself is the best answer most times.

[Bladepeek]

Chris Kinslow x2.

I have a local shop where the owner really is knowlegeable. He just can't spend the time adjusting my nock point or brace height to fit me. He has quality equipment for sale and 90% of it is trad stuff. I still do the nock adjustment, brace height, bare shafting etc for myself. I learn more that way. I support him when I can because I appreciate him being there. Trad archery is different than compounds where you need a bow press, etc, etc. My enjoyment is in getting my gear to fit me.

[Roadkill]

We have Cabelas, shields and sportsman warehouse.  When the guys get bows at those places and they cannot shoot, they end up in the independent shop.  Rick fixes the cam bows   and tunes them up
He shoots a Schultz and can do trad so very well.  We are lucky to have him
Like others, patronize the guy who services your needs.  Also learn to do these things yourself and experience the joy

[Jon Stewart]

In Michigan we are very lucky to have 4 or 5 trad only shoots a year which are supported by trad vendors.  Plenty of help there if you need it but like most have said it will pay to learn some of your own set up techniques.

[AkDan]

yup...pretty basic tuning(nock poing needing adjusting).  Its easy to do though I'm suprised if you handed him a tuned bow he didnt get closer though.

The match stick deal could have been a simple mistake on diameter of arrows.  Giving him the benefit of doubt...or just a sloppy job over all, only you can judge that.  Just because someones been in archery a long time, doesnt mean they can handle a stick.  the last 20+ years has been dominated by wheels...who knows maybe he wasnt big into trad archery before hand???  Either way another simple fix.

Serving is also super easy.....heck building your strings is a walk in the park also.   Wouldnt hurt to learn both, you're going to need a new string eventually!!!   If you do pick up doing the twist or his new video "how to build a great bowstring".

Overall it sounds like he really isnt into traditional archery...or isnt interested in learning it.  JMHO.

[huntnmuleys]

The pro shops around here don't deal with traditional gear at all....I guess a couple of em have a couple old recurves they're trying to sell for their buddies, but that's it.

[KentuckyTJ]

Yep all our shops are compound based and rightly so. That's where the masses and the money is. The arrows from my bows will shoot a bullet hole in paper at 7 paces. You just need to tune your stuff properly. I would get it tuned and then if you would like to use the fellow's targets go back in pay the range fee and then show him how your arrow flight is much better and walk him through what you did to fix it.

[Bjorn]

I only deal over the Internet, and TG sponsors. People do mention archery shops in our area, I have no clue where they are. Then again I don't seem to spend time in stores of any kind.  You can learn way more right here than in a store.

[dragonheart]

Doing it yourself is a just part of traditional archery.  If you learn to do it yourself you will become less dependent on others for your needs.

[jhg]

Originally posted by Pipefish:
... I was hoping to find a place I could just trust...
Do you guys/gals expect better service at your local shops? Is this the standard? And is it moral to use his range (there are modest fees) without supporting the shop side of his business at the same time?

Its an issue of knowlege and skill. Not trust IMO. And if you have to ask if its moral to use his range, but not support his business or help him become a better trad dealer, then maybe the issue you should  be worried about is a little closer to home.
Sorry to be so blunt, but good trad shops usually evolve. They are not instantly great.

Talk to him one on one, in a way that shows you are interested in his shop, but want better knowlege coming from him. Do it in a way he won't feel cornered.

Joshua

[maineac]

I agree with most of the responses.  I like knowing how to take care of my equipment so it works to the best of its potential, and the weakest link is me.  I would love a sporting goods store around here that dealt with trad stuff, but like most of America they deal with compounds.  
I have found lots of compound shooters have their nock point centered on the rest.  If he did this for your bow that would cause a porposing effect.  I would learn what I could and support him for products if he carries what you need.  I would definatly ask for him to put the rest back on if his first job did not stay on.

[moththerlode]

Sounds like a great shop to spend some time in .. as for the tuning issues. like many said here , only can do that. Absolutly we should support them.

[Looper]

Pipefish, I think you should continue to support him. Like some of the others, I'd suggest learning to do some of the basics yourself. It's really not that difficult. Even if you don't want to do these things yourself, you should at least know what to look for. Once you get a properly tuned arrow, take note of the correct brace height and nock height. A couple of quick measurements will confirm whether they are correct or not.

At the very least, I'd suggest shooting some arrows on his range to make sure your arrows are hitting where you are looking.

[Pipefish]

Thanks for the input everyone. I will be back to the shop and the range, but with altered expectations of how I should contribute to the business.

jhg (Joshua), I have a few comments about what you wrote:
1. "Its an issue of knowledge and skill. Not trust IMO."

I do believe it is a trust issue. If you present yourself as a professional in a particular sport and are willing to deal with novices who cannot judge your knowledge and skill fairly, you have the responsibility to do a professional job. If you cannot do a professional job, for whatever reason (time, lack of skills, etc...), it would be considerate to let the customer know this and suggest he do more research, or at least offer realistic expectations for the service you will be providing. (Equally, I have the responsibility to learn about the sport and make judgments for myself - a process that can be hastened with a trusting relationship with someone more knowledgeable than I - such as this shop keeper).

2. "And if you have to ask if its moral to use his range, but not support his business or help him become a better trad dealer, then maybe the issue you should  be worried about is a little closer to home."

Whether it is right of me to use his range or not is not black and white to me. I pay fees to be on that range. Originally, I felt that because this man has helped establish a community that I can learn from and have fun with, I should be supporting him fully. After reading people's comments I feel better supporting him in the aspects of his business solely where I am happy with the service.

Additionally, I think seeking the experience and collective wisdom of a group, like Trad Gang, by asking probing questions about a moral/ethical dilemma is a great way anchor my own feelings. It provides me with greater insight and offers new solutions (like yours, see #4 below).

Finally, I should add that this shopkeeper is incredibly nice. I enjoyed talking with him and I got the impression he enjoyed sharing with me. I do not think he has tried to bamboozle me. I simply do not want to end up spending money on things I will not be happy with; and I tend to do this more when the salesperson is charismatic.

3. "Sorry to be so blunt, but good trad shops usually evolve. They are not instantly great."

This individual has been in business for around  decades. He uses this fact to sell his services. As many people have correctly assumed, he mostly deals with compounds; He does not stock much traditional gear so you have to order it. If my patronage helps sway him towards stocking more traditional gear, I will try to support that effort when I can. To pay for things that do not suit me in hopes the shop will evolve towards a my traditional needs, seems unwise: It supports his current model.

4.  "Talk to him one on one, in a way that shows you are interested in his shop, but want better knowledge coming from him. Do it in a way he won't feel cornered."

I agree with you on this point. Good idea, Thanks.

Dan