How to detect UV reflective cloth?

[Naphtali]

I've been attempting to identify colors that elk and deer can perceive as colors rather than [shades of] gray.

A Scientific American article identified BLUE and YELLOW as colors perceived by most mammals.

It also stated that ultraviolet spectrum is perceived much as humans perceive luminescent blaze orange.

Okay, how can I easily and inexpensively determine whether something in my wardrobe or a garment in a store is UV reflective?

I understand there are detergents that claim to wash UV brighteners from clothing. How can I verify that UV brighteners have been deleted from washed clothing?
***
I hope to be able to create a home-built ghillie suit that is effective for elk and deer color perception rather than for human eyes.

If it can be done, I'd also like to create, either this ghillie suit or a second one, that complies with the 400 square inches of blaze orange rule. That is, humans see the orange but deer and elk see gray splotches.

[Killdeer]

Shine a black light over them.  :eek:  
Killdeer

[jchunt4ever]

You can use a black light to determine if there is UV brighteners on the cloth. If there is the black light will make it look like it is glowing, if not then it will just be "flat" and dull in appearance. There was a post last Fall (I think) with picture examples of the black light method. You might do a search and see if you can find it.

[woodchucker]

All I can base my opinion on is experiance.....

If deer can distiguish "blue" and "yellow" it's news to me.

Here in the NorthEast 90% of our Maple trees turn "yellow" in the fall,so it's one of the most abundant colors.

Also, I've been hunting in faded blue-jeans for over 30 years. When I was a kid all of the farmers hunted in blue denim "barn" coveralls.

I wouldn't worry about it.

Just one Old Fart's opinion.....

[beleg]

I read soemtime ago on Internet about deer seeing UV and not seeing but diferent shades of colors to infrared, that is red orange, yellow, etc.. It was a good arcticle but do not rememder where I saw it. Sorry.
Martin

[DarkeGreen]

If I recall correctly from testing I did the UV soap doesn't kill the reflection it just doesn't have the brighteners added in it. You can use one of the kits that come with the spray that kills the UV reflection and then wash your camo with the soap after. There is little doubt in my mind that product works. I had some amazing results with this stuff sprayed on clothes deer almost always see before. After spraying the these same clothes the deer never even looked my way...even at distances of less than 5 feet! I'm convenced this is one of the few products sold to hunters that does work.

[bowdude]

Always wash a load of towels or whatever with your sportwash soap, before washing your hunting clothes.  I always leave my outermost garments for last, after my other hunt stuff.

[Allan Hundeby]

First, I've heard that your average "blacklight" isn't good enough to determine UV reflection; you need a real UV light.  Can anyone confirm this?

Now for those who don't like alot of reading, skip to the quotes at the end of my post.

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This might be the article some of you have read: "Hunter Orange: Proving the Obvious":   http://www.atsko.com/articles/hunting/hunter-orange-proving-the-obvious.html  

 

"Deer have the equivalent of red-deficient color blindness in humans. This makes orange and green look very similar, ... That's why hunter orange does not alarm deer. In spite of this, fewer hunters are wearing orange, seemingly unaware of how this affects their safety."

...Or this: "How Animals See and Smell"
 http://www.atsko.com/articles/hunting/how-game-animals-see-smell.html  

Graph of Deer vision:  http://www.atsko.com/ui/image/articlepage/seeingdeer.jpg    Note the sentence at the bottom right:  

"[Blaze orange] is seen as dull yellow and blends with green, yellow, red, and brown which all appears as yellow."

See also:  http://www.atsko.com/ui/image/articlepage/innerfrontcover.jpg

And this:
 http://www.atsko.com/articles/hunting/U-V-Killer-Application-Tips-and-FAQ.html

 http://www.atsko.com/articles/hunting/   These are Atsko articles, a company that makes UV-Killer and Sport-Wash, among other things, so I'm always skeptical when a commercial company is feeding me "research".  Other Atsko articles like, "The Camo Conspiracy" (  http://www.atsko.com/articles/hunting/the-camo-conspiracy.html  ) are wordy, and overdramatic.  In short it says, "CLOTHING DESIGNERS HAVE INFECTED YOUR 'PAINTBALL' CAMO WITH UV BRIGHTENERS!"   It may well have been a marketing ploy for Sport-Wash and UV-Killer, but they refer to a 1992 study which reiterates their findings.  Here is a summary of that study which  discusses vision, and deer vision specifically:
 http://www.qdma.com/articles/details.asp?id=48

 

"Findings of the Study
The results of our study confirmed that deer possess two (rather than three as in humans) types of cones allowing limited color vision (Figure 1). The cone that deer lack is the “red” cone, or the one sensitive to long wavelength colors such as red and orange. This suggests that wearing bright colors while hunting does not affect hunting success. This does not mean that these colors are invisible to deer, but rather that they are perceived differently.

Deer are essentially red-green color blind like some humans. Their color vision is limited to the short (blue) and middle (green) wavelength colors. As a result, deer likely can distinguish blue from red, but not green from red, or orange from red. Therefore, it appears that hunters would be equally suited wearing green, red, or orange clothing but perhaps slightly disadvantaged wearing blue."

And finally...
 

"There is no question that scent and movement are far more important than the color of your clothing or whether or not it contains UV brighteners.

As far as a deer’s senses are concerned, their daytime and color vision is pretty average. In fact, the actual color of the fabric is relatively unimportant as long as the pattern blends with your surroundings.  Therefore, camouflage clothing is still recommended. In contrast, solid unbroken patterns, especially of light colors, are not recommended."

I hope that helps.

[Falk]

Thanks Allan,
I like it - especially the spectrum-graphics from atsko are nice. I also like the "wordy paintball camo" pamphlet    
I wonder, how many more generations it will need, until all this finds it's way INTO the heads of the general (ignorant) public ...

[Sharpster]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"There is no question that scent and movement are far more important than the color of your clothing or whether or not it contains UV brighteners.


Well said! I know a fellow in Missouri who has killed more turkeys than anyone I know. This guy does not own a single stich of camo, and has said almost these exact same words to me many times.

If turkeys with their full color, telescopic vision don't see a hunter in blue jeans and a plaid flannel, then what chance does a deer with color imaired vision have?

As for the UV question, the UV killer is probably a good idea. After that don't use laundry soap with its brightening ingredients. Just use a SMALL amount of dish liquid. Definately no "brighteners" in that.

[draco]

Put a black light on an extention cord and go outside and shine it on trees and bushs.Almost all plants have glowing spots on them.But these spots are very small.Clothing that is dried in a dryer can sometimes have very large areas of glow on them and can spook some animals.Always dry your outer clothing on the line.

[Naphtali]

Apparently, wool garments are inherently free of UV brighteners. So one way of taking the fun out of the problem would be to wear wool outer garments.

Regarding the high incidence of yellows and blues that occur naturally, it makes evolutionary good sense for an animal living where yellows and blues are ubiquitous to be able to perceive the colors.

This knowledge can be used to create a non-distinctive boundary for a hunter. The colors are supposed to be there? Okay, good. Just scatter them so there is no long, dark tunnel of nothing, or a Pollock-like garish block of color where no other exists.

[Naphtali]

While I'm unwilling to bet my life on it, I have confirmed to my satisfaction that a shaggy overgarment like Rancho Safari's and what I see used at sniper schools is unnecessary, and counterproductive.
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Okay, I'm ready to build a ghillie suit, based upon the serape principle. I intend to use Hunter Orange as my base garment for my first attempt.

"Why Hunter Orange?" you might reasonably ask.

If wildlife zoologists and psychologists are correct, Hunter Orange without UV brighteners will not draw the eye of mammals that can be hunted legally in USA -- elk, deer, bears, etc. If this is accurate, a serape-based ghillie garment of this base color would be usable during archery and gun seasons -- saving me big bucks while allowing effective hunting during gun seasons.

Camouflage based upon a serape will be significantly easier and quicker to create while being lighter and more comfortable than complete overgarment suits.

Heck, I should be able to prove the principle in my backyard. Whitetails noticing me sitting where I normally don't is failure. Ignoring me is passing.
***
Where can I obtain any of the following cloth? I'm not going to worry about cloth/bolt size on the prototype. That's why we have sewing machines.

1. Camouflage-patterned Hunter Orange wool cloth?

2. Camouflage-patterned Hunter Orange fleece without UV brighenters?

3. Hunter Orange wool cloth?

4. Hunter Orange fleece without UV brighteners?

[Dan Worden]

I use a black light. Years ago (80's) a LOT of my newer camo glowed. Anything that glowed I sold. Now when I buy something I check it before I pull the tags. If it glows it goes back. I would do the same for any possible ghillie materials.

There is blaze orange that doesn't have the uv dye.

The uv blocker spray will wash off and also makes the clothes very stiff. That is why I just get rid of anything that needs the blocker. It's just easier.

Use sport wash or most of your old time not scented, non xxx soaps like Ivory. A quick check of your clothes after they have been washed will tel you if your detergents have uv brighteners.

Yes, I'm a believer. short verison of the long story. High number of deer sightings. New camo, dramatic drop in sightings. trash uv camo sightings back up to previous level. Same farm, same tactics, same deer.

[John Nail]

blue and yellow? Wonder why their tails are white?

[iacornfed]

As a young man in the army. I was told not to wash my own BDU cammos because it ruined the UV properties. I didnt believe it. So I washed them and looked at them through night vission gogles. I could realy tell the differance! Since they were worn during peace time I didnt care, but if I had to depend on them I would use soap without UV brightners.

[Naphtali]

Where can one buy the cloth? Buying a[n unsatisfactory] garment to rip apart is an expensive way to experiment. It is unlikely that a garment manufacturer would sell a small quantity of UV brightener free Hunter Orange cloth directly. I prefer camouflage pattern because part of my assembly would be to break up the base material's color. To dye cloth is a messy procedure that I prefer to avoid.

[Dan Worden]

Check your local fabric/craft stores. Usually they carry some, especially this time of year.

[O.L. Adcock]

I've seen this subject come up over and over and I have to smile at those that poopoo the idea that some animals can "see" things we can't yet have no trouble agreeing they can hear and smell things we can't??? The ol' "I've worn blue jeans and killed lots of deer", there's no way to know how many they didn't see because of it. I've always tried to stay away for the blue side of the spectrum.

With that said, I don't think UV is much of an issue when hunting out of tree stands cause the sky is the source of the scattered UV, it's like looking at a candle in the sun. On the ground in low light conditions it's another story. Once I started paying attention to it by checking my clothes with a black light, it at least seemed my undetected close encounters went up.

A few years ago I had been keeping an eye on a pair of bulls hanging out in draw, a bigun and a smaller one. As the season and the rut progressed, I picked an afternoon to sneek in on them. Starting up the mountain about 3:30 before the thermals shifted to down hill, I knew I'd have to be careful not to get too far too fast and bust them if they were in there. But I did just that, going slow and telling myself to wait, oh just a few more steps...You got it...I busted them. Sticks started cracking below me and the cows a chirping. "Big" boy bugled his indignation at my intrusion as he rounded up his girls. I was kicking myself. I stayed put till the wind started flowing down hill like water and moved to where I'd originally wanted to make my first call. Hoping the big bow was close by I opted to give a couple of cow chirps in the hopes he'd think he had a stray cow and come to round her up. I gave a cow call and the "little" one answered less then 100 yards up hill. Here he comes....I backed under low hanging spruce limbs, slipped off my quiver and laid it aside. Arrow nocked, I'm ready....With the lay of the terrain and trails, I expected to get an 5-6 yard broadside shot. The "little" bull was a decent 5x5 and he hit the bottom of the draw some 40 yards up and proceeded to show off for the girls rakeing an elderberry bush for several minuets. Then here he comes, head on. I'm hunkered down on my knees in the dark shadows with a couple of good shooting gaps with a near horizontal bow. At 8 yards the trail he was on took a right hand turn to give me that broadside shot. At the turn some 8 yards away he froze, glaring right through the spruce limbs at me. I was puzzled as to what had alerted him as I was well hidden and solid as a statue, and wind in my face. Unless it was my pounding heart!?? He glared for some seconds then turned his head a bit only to jerk back around, head down, with a forward step in a false charge, at least I hoped it was false!    I knew at any second he'd turn and give me the shot. 3 more times he did this little step and false charge, obviously trying to get me to move. Something was thinking about moving but it was something he'd smell, not see.    He finally spun around in an instant, not giving me a shot and the encounter was over.

It bugged me as to what he saw that keyed him to my position when I thought I was so well hidden. That evening around a camp fire with several other elk chasers, I broke out the black light, the battery powered kind used for night fishing, to check my clothes. Everything looked fine...But the answer was sticking up out of the back of the truck some 20-30 feet away...My quiver! It was glowing like a neon sign. Not the quiver itself but the cluster of white fletched arrows and "floresent" nocks. I failed to lay my quiver around behind the tree instead just laying it on the ground within my reach. I have no doubt that is what he keyed on even though it surely wasn't moving. I now check ALL my equipment. I still use white fletch occasionally but treating it with the UV blocker difinately cuts down the glow under UV conditions without changing it's appearance to the human eye. I now lay 1 arrow out within reach instead of having a cluster of bright colors....O.L.

[Naphtali]

Mr. A:

Couldn't agree more about camo being a non-issue when operating from a tree stand. I don't; hence my interest.

While I believe I can control my aroma to an extent, there is no way an animal downwind will not know I'm there. The best I can do is confuse the issue and anticipate the animal will make a mistake. To quote a leader of the Provisional Wing of the IRA on protecting PM Thatcher: They [the police] need to be lucky every time. We need to be lucky only once.