Bad shafts?

[rnickl]

I bought a set of spruce shafts about 2 months ago and I've had 6 of them break near center of the shaft.  All but one broke when they hit a hay or foam target, number 6 broke when I overshot and hit my wood fence.  They have seen minimal abuse and some were only shot 5-6 times before braking.

This is the first time I've tried spruce.  Is it that fragile or should I file a complaint with the folks I bought them from?  Maybe some shipping damage?

Here's a shot of some shafts I haven't thrown out yet.  Those clean breaks have me thinking they took some damage somewhere along the line.  
I think I'll retire the rest of the set before I get one through my bow hand.

 

[Fletcher]

That is pretty strange!  Spruce is a pretty tough wood, kind of a fiberous structure, but somewhat succeptible to chrsyls, or compression fractures.  These will appear as a light circumferential line going part way around the shaft.  They can be kinda tough to notice unless you are actually looking for them, but that is where the shaft will break.  What kind of shape was the box in when the arrows arrived?

[Bjorn]

I don't know of any wood that would break like that.............they must have already been cracked. I would send the photo to the seller.

[JamesKerr]

I agree with Bjorn. I have shot a few different wood shafts and have never seen a fracture like that even when hitting a hard surface.

[rnickl]

Thanks folks.  The box arrived in good condition but on VERY close inspection it looks like I have a fracture in at least 1 more shaft, maybe 2.

I'll call the seller on Monday and see what they say.

[Orion]

Very unusual.

Are you careful when you pull the shafts out of your target?  Wood isn't as durable as carbon.  If you pull on them sideways as you pull them out of the target, you can crack them and they'll subsequently break.

I assume the shafts are spined correctly for the bow.  Could potentially see this kind of breakage if the shafts were way underspined.  But then they probably wouldn't fly right out of the bow to start with.  

[LBR]

I had some maple shafs do basically the same thing several years ago...on the first shot.  Wasn't shipping damage--never did figure it out.

I've shot spruce in the past, never had that kind of problem with them.

I would contact the seller--especially if they manufacture their own shafts.  I know I'd want to know about it if I had let a faulty product get out.

Chad

[slowbowjoe]

I've shot a set of spruce arrows stump shooting in rough woods - hit a variety of rocks, ironwood, hard maple, etc. along the way. Broke a bunch on the bad shots, but usually just behind the point (often able to shorten them an inch and shoot 'em some more), and never broke one in the midsection. Looks like something went wrong with yours.
I wouldn't immediately blame the supplier; maybe send the pictures and a note ( with a neutral tone ) describing what happened , and see what they say. I've had the best results with that approach. Just my $.02.

[slowbowjoe]

I've shot a set of spruce arrows stump shooting in rough woods - hit a variety of rocks, ironwood, hard maple, etc. along the way. Broke a bunch on the bad shots, but usually just behind the point (often able to shorten them an inch and shoot 'em some more), and never broke one in the midsection. Looks like something went wrong with yours.
I wouldn't immediately blame the supplier; maybe send the pictures and a note ( with a neutral tone ) describing what happened , and see what they say. I've had the best results with that approach. Just my $.02.

[German Dog]

Never had that problem with the sitkas I've shot.

I do recall reading here on Tradgang i think that an over dried shaft can make them brittle and break easily like that. Not sure if that was pertaining to Sitkas or another wood.

[owlbait]

Scary looking arrows! Sitka spruce was one of Jay Massey's favorite because it was so tough. Has to be a good explanation. Run out of the grain, dried improperly,.... Hope you get it settled and don't feel afraid to try them again. Good luck.

[jimboby]

My brother and I just had the same experience, separately.  He ordered them first, had your experience and called the vendor who replaced them with fir.  Thinking it was a fluke I ordered some spruce because of good experience in the past.  Broke 3 arrows just checking them out of the box.  The vendor made good on these also with fir.  I don't think it is you.

[reddogge]

As mentioned it could be bad run out of the grain or perhaps very poor bow tuning and arrow flight.

[WESTBROOK]

I have a spruce shaft that has some sort of fracture, didnt break, but developed a "hinge".
The rest of the batch are OK

I've great luck with Spruce other than that one shaft.

Eric

[AkDan]

makes me wonder.....are they underspined?  Too much bend would cause the fracture/chrysal, the impact causing the break, basically finishing it off.

I had sitka spruce blow up.  Its a nice wood compared to cedar but imho is not as durable by a long shot.   OB, Jay did like sp...its why I gave it a shot.   I didnt make mine from scratch like he did...never tried it again.  Seemed light even compared to cedar though I'm sure its just what I had.

another thought.  Maybe they were over dried, causing them to go brittle?   Did you break any straightening?

[WESTBROOK]

I see 1, how many of the others were bareshafts?

If they dont hit the target straight they will break rather easily, even Laminated Birch...dont ask...


Eric

[AkDan]

doug fir basically exlodes LOL

[AkDan]

here's a good video to watch.....taking a break from tying flies and found this.  About 1:30 you'll see some arrows impact in slow mo...

The also shoots a serioulsy under spined shaft and blows up half way down the bow.   The head on shot about 1mn mark looks like an underspined shaft also watch for the kick.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzWrcpzuAp8&feature=relmfu

[rnickl]

Thanks for the ideas and input all.

The shafts were 50-55# cut to 28.5" and I was shooting out of a 45# R/D longbow.  The bare shafts were flying nice and don't think this was a spine issue.
All of the arrows broke on impact with the target, not in straightening.  

I've been shooting cedar for years and never seen this before.  If the seller gives me credit I think I'll swap these out with carbons for the time being and pick out another set of woodies down the road a bit.

[Larry m]

Several years ago I noticed a lot of the cedar I was receiving had numerous circumference lines on the shaft. This was predominantly through Rouge River. When questioned I was informed they could only use down felled timber. The lines were caused by a fungus that leached into the wood.  I didn't like the idea but good wood was hard to come by so I stained the shafts and moved on. The shafts spined and made nice arrows except they seemed brittle and broke just like yours. Not sure if this is what your dealing with but I became more careful about my selection of shafting after that.