About to give up, again.

[Jose Rios]

Coming back to trad after a 6-7 year break and I'm felling VERY frustrated because I can't stop the arrows from ticking off the shelf!

Here's the specs and info.  40# (at my draw) 3 piece R/D longbow.  I ran the knock point all the way up past an inch, took brace height from 7" all the way up to 9", swapped limbs to make sure it wasn't a tiller problem and tried arrows from 35 to 65 spine.  Nothing I did seems to make a bit of difference!

I settled on some 50-55 cedar shafts with 160gr points.  They fly dead straight without a hint of tail wag, even without fletching, but always nock high.  I put a piece of masking tape on the shelf and colored it with some marker.  You can clearly see the arrow ticks the shelf about 1/4" away from the strike plate and it leaves a mark on the arrow about 2-3 inches in front of the fletching.  Weaker and stiffer arrows did the same problem.

I spent about 6 hours trying to figure this out yesterday.  As a last resort I came out of lurking and joined up here to see if anyone could give a bit of advice on the problem.  Any ideas?

[kawika b]

What style of release do you use? 3under or split? Double nock set or single nock?

[Bowwild]

It sounds like you have tinkered with the obvious issues; nock locator height and arrow spine.

Have you shot with broadheads and field points? If so do both shoot in the same group with no planing?  If so, it doesn't sound like this is something that will impact your shot?  Of course it is irritating. A lot of folks, if their field points and broadheads grouped together wouldn't look any further.

I'm wondering two things related to form.

1. Are you shooting split finger or 3-under? Have you tried the other way to see if the problem persists? Of course it shouldn't but maybe the string is coming off your fingers in and odd, vertical torquing way?

2. Your bow hand set. Does your bow hand wrist make an "L" with the life-line of the hand seated flat against the grip? With the pressure evenly distributed this will prevent heeling the bottom of the grip with the bowhand.

Kawika, good question about the double nock locators. That arrow could be moving down upon release.

Just fishing here.

Oh, welcome as a poster!

[JB]

have you tried nock point above and below arrow? nock may be sliding down string on release.

[Jose Rios]

I tried tying a second nock to make sure it wasn't sliding down the string.  I normally shoot 3 under but I tried split and I also concentrated real hard on relaxing my string hand on release to make sure I wasn't tweaking the string.

I have not tried broad heads.  The arrows are so tail high out of the bow I was a bit paranoid try them.  My bare shafts are hitting 2+ feet low at 20 yards and fly with a 45 deg nose down angle all the way to the target.

Thanks for the ideas and the welcome.

[JB]

whats the tiller measure on your bow?

[Bowwild]

Yikes, you are correct, the arrow isn't ready for broadheads yet.

[Jose Rios]

Originally posted by JB:
whats the tiller measure on your bow?

I just went and measured it, at the top and bottom of the riser it measures dead even.

[2treks]

Don't measure at the riser, Measure at the fade-out. The limb wedge fades into the limb core.
Don't get frustrated it can be fixed.
It sounds like your nock point is way to high at this point. How do your nocks fit on to the string? loose or tight?
Place a pad of velcro or rug rest material on the shelf to give a slight elevated rest and a small contact point for the arrow. Place this pad right above the deepest part of the grip. The throat area.
Good luck

[skilonbw]

Do you have  a way to video to see if it might also be a problem with your form and how you are releasing the arrow. Also did the bow maker have a recommended brace height for this bow?

[Caughtandhobble]

OK, I'm no expert...

Try lowering your nock. This will get your arrow on the horizontal plane. Or possibly even better try build up your rest and leaving a small gap between the rest and the shelf. This should hold your arrow in better on the rest while putting your arrow on the horizontal plane.

I believe even tiller should be greta for 3 under. If you are comfortable shooting 3 under I think that you would benifit from shooting that way.

Good luck and don't give up!!!

[Jose Rios]

Thanks, I wasn't sure where to measure from.  At the fades the top limb measures 8 3/4" the bottom is 8 5/8".

The shelf is crowned and I am currently using a velcro rest and calf hair side plate.

Nocks fall off the string with a light flick of my finger.  Nock point is around 3/8" right now but, it doesn't matter much where I set it right now.

Should also mention, I tried a feather rest to get better clearance.  No luck there either.

Originally posted by Two Tracks:
Don't measure at the riser, Measure at the fade-out. The limb wedge fades into the limb core.
Don't get frustrated it can be fixed.
It sounds like your nock point is way to high at this point. How do your nocks fit on to the string? loose or tight?
Place a pad of velcro or rug rest material on the shelf to give a slight elevated rest and a small contact point for the arrow. Place this pad right above the deepest part of the grip. The throat area.
Good luck

Chuck, I echo what you have said - especially the point on the shelf that sits directly over throat of the grip.

I'd also add that a close pic of an arrow knocked as it sits in place could generate more food for discussion here.

[Bowwild]

Hmm.
Tiller ok at 1/8" higher on top. Side plate and velcro pad on the shelf. Light tapped nocks fall off. Nock locator at 3/8" should be within 1/4" of fine and he's gone up and down the string trying different levels.  

Looks a "by the book starting set-up". Three fingers under with a relaxed release. I won't get into where I think follow-through should be because that's a thread-killer.

Strange, this almost looks like a quiz for someone who just read the book on set-up.

[sleepyhollow]

If you shoot split and your drawing hand elbow is to high and your putting to much pressure on the arrow with your index finger so that at full draw the arrow is bowed down that can happen as the arrow straightens out again at release

[Jose Rios]

Originally posted by Bowwild:

Strange, this almost looks like a quiz for someone who just read the book on set-up.

I really wish it was just a quiz Bowwild.  I've been chasing my tail on this for over a week now and near a full day yesterday.  There is something I'm overlooking but I can't figure out what!

[Trumpkin the Dwarf]

have you tried two under? Also, you might try dropping the brace to 6.75". Your bow's limb timing might be off...I hate to even mention this, but it is a possibility that might need to be considered. My guess is that you either have an issue with your form or there is an issue with the limbs on your bow. You may want to check and make sure the limb bolts are tight as well.

[Jose Rios]

So nobody think's I'm trying to pull your leg, here is a picture of the shelf where you can see the arrows have removed the marker off the tape.

Thanks to all for input.

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Is there any way you could post a couple pictures of you at full draw from each side?  

Another question that may seem odd... But can you grab your bow with one hand and try and move the string up and down. Then tell us what the limbs do.

The only thing that i can think of that would cause the problem you are having is a combination of vertical instability in the limbs of the bow, and heeling down too hard on the grip.

Now please don't get me wrong here....vertically unstable bows can drive tacks, and have good arrow flight too. There are a lot of them out there that have this "Floppy limb" quality to them that are very high performance bows... BUT.... They are very sensitive to getting just the right pressure point on the grip, and having a nice clean release.

I'd recommend trying different pressure points on the grip from high to low, along with nocking point elevation.

   Kirk

[kawika b]

What was your brace height again?

For my taste... you seem a little low for a nocking point for 3under... but that's just me.