Why mostly heavy longbows?

[Rik]

Tell the loudmouth that it's only 100 pounds if he draws it to a full 28 inches, and tell him you'd REALLY like to see him do that, AND hit yon target twice.

Tell him that you'd be glad to help by marking his arrow "right here" with a pen so you can all see him pull it to the mark before releasing at yon target.

He might be a little quieter the next weekend. Either that or he will give you a good show. Either way, it's going to be fun to watch.

Nothing wrong with a guy shooting a heavy bow, as long as he can do it well.

[moleman]

I shoot in the 65 to 75 range, not as heavy as some but heavy by a lot of standards, reason being, because i can, and i enjoy it. I hold nothing against those who shoot more or less poundage than i do. At this point I weigh in at a whopping 150 pounds and am in good physical shape,and shoot these weights well,but i know there will be a time when ill have to back down, but till then ill enjoy shooting my moderate heavies. Im sure there are some with ego issues out there, such as the fella trad_in_cali referred to, but they are far and few between. I have never made an issue about what poundage i shoot, and only advocate that a body shoot what they like and shoot it well, we owe it to the game we hunt. If asked what poundage i shoot, i will gladly tell, and if asked to shoot my gear ,i will gladly hand it over so that a fella can try it, but never have i insinuated someone was a whimp, or shoots a girly bow because their physical capabilities did not allow them to shoot the  heavies, or moderate heavies. Shoot what works for you, and shoot it well, and enjoy the gift of the outdoors that God has given us. Life is to short and precious to worry about what others think about a persons choices in your equipment.  

[el greco]

My heaviest bow so far is a 70 pound Martin Hatfield and though I am still strugling with consistency and accuracy I DO enjoy the flat trajectory of the arrow in longer distances.Having said that I don't think I am able to go more than that and when I buy another bow in that poundage it will be a longbow.I traded recently my 60 pound recurve for a 59 pound longbow and the latter just feels easier to pull(and I don't think it is the 1 pound difference).
Now I consider a heavy bow anything above 60 but that's personal.

[trad_in_cali]

Oh, indeed: there's all kinds indeed. But 99% of shooters are really friendly.
And yes, he can't hit the same 9" plate twice in a row.
It's all fun, especially since we have 10 lanes and I can shoot all the way at the last one, some 150 yds. away if needed.

[Raging Water]

Got another one for ya.

Call Big Jim and ask Big Jim if it is his EGO that makes him build his "personal bows" at 80# or more?

Curious to what Big Jim would tell ya?

Matt

[BowHunterGA]

Ego doesn't fling heavy arrows with authority. Heavy bows do! I know lighter bows are effective but I like having a heavy bow for when everything doesn't go as perfectly as I had planned. Ego does not figure into the equation, humanely dispatching an animal does.

One other thought, I will admit that I am proud of the additional discipline required to maintain my ability to shoot heavy bows and to shoot them accurately. The wonderful side effect for me, I shoot the heavier bows more accurately than I did my lower weight bows.

[Terry Green]

Those that claim 'ego' are mostly just green with 'envy'.  

I don't understand why it should bother someone no mater what bow they shoot, as long at they are accurate with it.  Folks with ego problems don't need a heavy bow to portray that.  Kinda like blaming the fork for making Rosy O'Donald fat. Yes, some folks that shoot heavy bows do it as a way to express their ego, and its pretty obvious.

I have friends that shoot lighter than me...and I don't think they are wimps....I have friends that shoot heavier than me, and I don't think they have an ego.

I also find it interesting that folks that shoot heavier bows don't go on light bow threads and pass out labels to the shooters like has happened here.

Yes, there are exceptions on BOTH sides....I know a couple of light weight bow shooters with PLENTY of ego that is also obvious.  Bottom line, painting everyone with a broad brush usually isn't a good thing.

[mike g]

I knew my reply would get some attention.
Now dont everyone take my reply wrong, I based it on a quote from Mr Hill that I read in one of his books....
   I personaly dont care what poundage anyone uses....As long as they can handle it and be effecent with it....
   Heck I only use a 49-52 pound range, so I guess Im in the middle....
   Shoots out here average 84 shots....You need to be able to shoot good on no one and no 42....
   You guys that can handle a 90# bow, more power to ya....
   If I offended anyone....Sorry..!!
The heavyest bow I pulled to my 29" draw was 96#
   And I did not want to do it again....I picked this HH bow up off of Bill Prices table and drew it to my 29" let it down slow set the bow down....And told Mr Price, that bow was a little stiff, he smiled and told me how stiff it was....
   That my friends is my experince with a Hvy Bow....

[Forrest Halley]

I'll pass on the ego discussion and chime in based on my experiences spec'ing, buying, tuning, and shooting the heavy longbow versus the heavy recurve. If you want to see it from beginning to now look over in the Dark Continent.

First off the heavy recurve is harder to get an arrow for than a longbow. With a mildly efficient one requiring 5 to 13 pounds spine above the draw weight. I've only ever shot carbons and there are only three shafts I know of that will meet spine and GPP requirements and all are costly.

Trying to get anyone to make you a 100# bow is a search as none but the war bow makers seem to offer it as a standard option. Nate Steele at Bama Bows makes a great longbow but would not make me a recurve no matter how much I asked. JD Lund at Whisperstik Bows will do it, but doesn't quite have making weight down to a science and will tell you he may miss hit or low. That said, my Mojostik is a shooter like no other even at 100#@29".

You can take my word for it I am drawing it to that length(I should make a video) or you can come and shoot with me whenever you're in town. Mike g, please consider yourself warmly invited. I'd like to discuss bows with you and shoot various weights. I'm not picky, bring what you have and it'll be a good time. I will warn you: I'll get very excited about good shots from any draw weight, yours or mine.

I find my recurve is heavier to draw initially, but easier from 90 to 100. The longbow is easy in the beginning, but a noticeable effort from 95 to 105. I use these weights because that are the draw weights from 27" to 29" on each bow.

Like Steve Angell, I discovered the discipline to shoot well in heavy draw, but I'll go further and say I discovered how to tune a bow well there also. The reason was simple: I didn't have the strength to pull it five hundred times in a session so I'd better make it count and the arrows were expensive so I better get them flying straight or it's gonna be a long day looking and a short day shooting.

I hope everybody has a great day and remembers to show your bow some love today.

[Terry Green]

Thanks for the comback Mike....I probably was a bit harsh and I shouldn't have been.

There is also a need for heavy bows for some animals and I am certainly all for that.

 

[Goshawkin]

I used to be able to shoot a 90-100# bow,not anymore! I'm just getting back into shooting and my 65# bows feel heavy to me now. I'm shooting everyday and working out with weights too. My goal is to get back up to around 75# longbows.I'm sure I'll do it. I like the heavier bows for their flat cast with heavy arrows.Heavy arrows and a 40 pound bow just don't work for me.I get a much better release with the heavy bows as well.I've got alot of respect for the guys who can shoot the heavy(100#) longbows accurately,it takes alot of work and time.(or you can just be a beast like Matt,look at his picture!a little green body paint and I can get you a job on a tv show!) Just Kiddin' with ya Matt,I'm sure you put a ton of work into it.

[Jeff Strubberg]

The question was, why so many heavy bows for sale?

The answer is that heavier bows require more work to shoot well.  Do folks buy bows heavier than they can reasonably shoot?  You betcha they do.  I would bet that realistic bow weight is the most common topic of discussion for a bowyer.

That doesn't take anything away from Mike or the others who like to shoot heavy bows.  The fact is, most guys aren't in a position to make a heavy bow work for them, so they sell 'em.

The good new is, most of those can be reworked to the kind of weights most of us are looking for.  

[C.Cannon]

I shot longbows between 70-80# pretty easily, but I have three reasons for not shooting heavy recurve
1. None are available especially left-hand models

2. I'm not rich and can't afford those doubled up shafts that you pretty much need for center cut heavy bows

3. I can only string a heavy bow with the step-through method. This is easy with a hill style/mild Rd bow, bad for and painful to use with a recurve

[Terry Green]

Jeff...actually the question was ...why so many LONGBOWS for sale.

[el greco]

Thanks for the invitation Forest.But I am afraid I wont be in "town " soon..Hopefully you ll be in Howard Hill shoot in AL. end of May.
And Yes,the question was why more heavy longbows than recurves.So far it summes up to this:
1.more people start traditional archery with a recurve and they continue later on with longbows(and most of them of course want to try something heavier).Later on realizing they can't handle the weight they sell their heavy longbows for something lighter.
2.Bowyers don't make heavy recurves(say more than 65).
3.Is somehow "easier" to pull heavy longbows than recurves.
4.I will add something of my own.Many people here are well..ol timers.Longbow die hards.Maybe with age they want to drop a few pounds.(no offence guys,just a theory!)

[Sam McMichael]

Yeah, let's get off the ego thing. Some guys like heavy bows, and some guys like lighter bows. It is pretty much that simple, and in no way reflects a likelihood of a character flaw. As Terry said, ego can express itself without regard to an archer's choice of draw weight.

I like shooting moderately heavy bows (65#) but don't feel any better than a guy that shoots 45#. In fact, in my organization many, probably most, can outshoot me whether drawing lighter or heavier, but that's O.K.

Please don't think I am "telling off" anybody as I sure don't intend to do so. Remember guys, as serious as we may be in bowhunting, we are still all "going outside to play", and that's the way it should always be - each person doing archery the way he likes it.

However, I have sometimes wondered why I don't see as many heavy recurves, so the discussion is very interesting to me.

[Forrest Halley]

Originally posted by el greco:
Thanks for the invitation Forrest. But I am afraid I wont be in "town " soon..Hopefully you ll be in Howard Hill shoot in AL. end of May.
 

I'm happy as a clam that somebody considered my invitation. That is why I like this place: good natured people. I'm afraid that work will keep me out of the Hill shoot.      :(      

CCannon:
1. Whisperstik will make you a very nice heavy recurve all you have to do is ask.
2. There are numerous stringers that will aid you in stringing the big bows with ease. I prefer a beefed up version of the Neet stringer as it's very efficient. I believe as does Mr. Imler that most any man can work up to a heavier bow than they ever imagined.
3. As for shafts please see the Dark Continent Subforum and I believe your view may change. I know of one shaft offhand that will work and will not break your bank: PSE Black Mamba.

"The factor of physical exercise is important in field archery, so why not get the most out of it."-Tom Imler, Jr., "Use Heavy Bows,"  Ye Sylvan Archer, December 1942.  Link to the full article to ensure I did not take it out of context.
In light of reading this article for the second time now I have become more affirmed in my choice of tackle as both an exercise medium and a harvest tool. This is how I have always seen the bow and it has become clearer to me that not everyone shares that point of view. It takes more than two sharp edges to make an arrowhead, we need a middle too.

To get back to the post that I digressed from:
Heavy bows tend most often to be internally traded within the community of heavy shooters. The heavy recurve that lured me into the community was traded like this. If I were ever to liquidate mine I would prefer to do it that way. I see them as tools and toys not something that should prematurely become a conversation piece. I hope my grandchildren will aspire to grow into play with the big bows as I did the toys of my grandfathers.

[Raging Water]

Per Forrest,

"Heavy bows tend most often to be internally traded within the community of heavy shooters. The heavy recurve that lured me into the community was traded like this. If I were ever to liquidate mine I would prefer to do it that way"

This is very true. All my heavy bows are either going to or were bought from the usual suspects.

Also, Forrest is correct. It is very, very hard to get a "current" bowyer to make a Recurve over 65#.

One other thing to concider. I had a 90# Damon Howatt Recurve. Nice bow and well made. But, it had a higher wrist than my longbows. I just never felt comfortable with that Recurve Grip.

So, at heavy draw weights, I wonder if other heavy bow shooters may have similar grip issues. Yes? No?

Matt

[Forrest Halley]

Matt,
I believe it is a tall order to shoot a high wrist grip in a heavy weight bow. In my somewhat limited experience I have found it sufficiently difficult to keep shots on line with a low wrist grip. My guess is that it would require greater strength to shoot the same weight in a high wrist grip due to the offset of the form triangle. Specifically the necessary drop of the bow arm from the sight line to achieve desired arrow impact. My speculation is that this takes the bone to bone alignment out of play and forces the resistance to come from the bow arm muscles alone requiring a marked increase in effort and stress on the archer. If one were to shoot three under instead of split with a high wrist grip perhaps the increase in required strength would not be as great as the rear of the sighting plane would be slightly elevated as well and the rear hand would be more in line with the forward hand. I have no experience with this in traditional gear, but I shake like a leaf when trying to hold a whizbang compound at full draw due to the difference in form required to put the sights on target. All my traditional stuff has been and will continue to be low wrist in recurve and longbow. The grips I use are bare wood and both well fitted to my hand as I apparently share similar hand width to JD and Nate.
Best Regards,
Forrest

[Hud]

When Bear was in Grayling, they made Kodiaks 100+, and 70-80 were available until the compounds came out. Guys realized they could shoot heavy without holding that much.
Damon Howatt made some heavy bows as well.