How far can I shoot a deer before penetration becomes an issue?

[Slim]

OK guys, let's assume my broadheads are razor sharp and I hit a deer in the boiler room -- what's the farthest distance a 50 pound bow would do the job with a 450 grain arrow?
In other words, I'm wondering when it starts running out of Kinetic Energy so that penetration becomes an issue?
P.S. I understand that this is not an ethical type of shot and I personally wouldn't try shooting past 25 yards --I'm just curious.

[Benjy]

Around 200 yards would be my guess! That arrow is deadly until it hits something! It's just a matter of how far can you make the shot every time, that's where ethics come in and why we traditional archers keep our targets close!

Benjy

[ksbowman]

I've shot a whitetail at 38 yards, but it is not a shot that I would always take. It's not that you can't shoot and hit at a certain yardage, but the deer's reactions are so good he probably won't be there when the arrow gets there. The closer he is the better the shot will be.

[SELFBOW19953]

Howard Hill, Ben Pearson, and many others, back in the day, made kills at over 100 yards-draw weight unknown.  English archers practiced at distances over 100 yards-heavy draw weight bows.  The Mongols, et. al., shot flight arrows close to 900 yards-short horn bows.  I guess the answer is the greatest distance at which you could place that arrow in the vitals-considering gravity, 30+/- degree angles, etc.

[moththerlode]

Bingo !! even with a compound it gets dicy past 40 yards , there is a world of difference between popping a target and reality in the field.

(It's not that you can't shoot and hit at a certain yardage, but the deer's reactions are so good he probably won't be there when the arrow gets there. The closer he is the better the shot will be.)

[WESTBROOK]

A long ways...

[Cyclic-Rivers]

25 yards but that's just me.    

Good luck in your experimenting!  

[The Whittler]

I would think even when the arrow starts to run out of steam and descends down, be it 200yds,300yrds, or more.

 When the BH hits the animal the rest of the shaft keeps on pushing.

If everything is tuned right then I would say, as far as your bow will shoot, depending on the bow weight. Or I could be wrong lol.

[Goshawkin]

Way farther than I'm capable of keeping my shot in the kill zone.

[Slim]

I agree with the keeping it close. I was just wondering because I've been practicing at 40 and my arrow penetration isn't significantly different than at 20.
As for myself 25 is the limit in a hunting situation.

[BWD]

I'm thinking you need to be thinking in terms of 20-25 yard max, for real world hunting.
But then again, that's just where I draw the line.

[ChristopherO]

I enjoyed your question, Slim, and even noticed you were only asking in hypotheticals.  So you won't read another tired "Oh, keep it close" statement from me.
Many men lost their lives or limbs at two hundred yards from the arrows of war bows centuries ago.  When the rain of those projectiles fell upon them indescriminently they didn't bounce off harmlessly.
When the Romans were caught off guard by a lessor army of Persians on horse back using their new secret weapon, the horn bow, wreaking havoc on the invaders at long distance the men weren't falling dead in Ceaser's ranks because of annoyance.  Those pointy sticks were plenty lethal from way out there.

[Slim]

Thanks for noticing the hypotheticals Chris

I don't disagree about keeping it close; never have -- I was just asking a question that I'm curious about.

Where I hunt you wouldn't get a shot 25 yards through the woods anyhow. The cover is thick and hilly. Too many overhanging branches.

Plus, I've hunted for long enough to know that all it takes is one move of the animal to change a good shot into a bad one.

The longest shot I ever took on a deer was 28 yards and that seemed far too long. Most of my encounters are far closer. I like it that way.

[JimB]

I did read a thread quite some time ago where someone chronographed at point blank,20 and 30 yds.

Loss of speed was 3.65% at 20 yds and 6.25% at 30 yds.

[Slim]

Interesting Jim B....

[JamesKerr]

Your arrow carries a lot of momentum with it. A heavier arrow will carry it's momentum further than a lighter arrow. For instance a 650 grain arrow will have more energy at 200 yards than a 450 grain arrow will. I would say though with a 450 grain arrow you could kill a deer out to about 80 yards or so if bone was hit. If no bone was hit than you could shoot him just about as far as your bow will shoot as flesh is easy to penetrate with a razor sharp broadhead.

[Slim]

Anyone know how many foot-pounds of Kinetic energy it takes to penetrate hide?

[Slasher]

Originally posted by Slim:
Anyone know how many foot-pounds of Kinetic energy it takes to penetrate hide?

Nope!!! but to be honest... When I was starting out bow hunting I was told by an old timer, that the best test for hunting penetration was a cheap styrofoam gas station cooler with ice water!

After all adeer is hide(x2), 2 ribs and 2 lungs... If you punch through all that, it is a dead deer... a styrofoam cooler has more resistance, but then deer will turn on you as well... so to get piece of mind the cooler will do it!!! After all I've read that many Native American bows were sub 45 and even sub40 ###    

But I am sure the trad-police correct answer is no more than 20-25 yds    

[Slim]

Makes good sense to me.

[randy grider]

asfar as you can hit it