How far can I shoot a deer before penetration becomes an issue?

[T Lail]

bowhunting is a close range operation (0 to 30) yards.......many seem to have forgotten that in these days of hype......try and work as close as possible and set a limit and stick to it no matter what..... and then there are no worrys.....I know a man personnally who shot and killed a whitetail at 101 steps.......would never reccommend ANY shot over 30 yards.....just my opinion.......

[eminart]

I've often wondered about this as well, especially while watching battle scenes in movies. But physics is hard. We need an educated person to break it down for us. I suspect height of the arrow's arc will come into play.

[overbo]

Get a peice of hide.Take your hunting sharp BH on a arro.Put the nock end of the arro on a hard surface and atempt to poke the BH thru the hide.
You willbe very surprised how easily the BH cuts into the hide.Kinda like getting a shot at the Docs if your BH's tip is good and sharp.

[atatarpm]

As long as the arrow remains in an arching flight path it will remain lethal untill it stops

[Turkeys Fear Me]

Originally posted by Slim:
OK guys, let's assume my broadheads are razor sharp and I hit a deer in the boiler room -- what's the farthest distance a 50 pound bow would do the job with a 450 grain arrow?

As far as the bow can propel the arrow.  If it's airborne, it's lethal.

[wingnut]

Unlike a bullet that kills with shock an arrow kills with trama created by the broadhead.  The bullet looses energy over the course of distance and will at some point no longer be lethal (although that's a long ways).  An arrow retains the ability to penetrate and create the trama as long it is in flight.  Most bows will cast a hunting weight arrow with broadhead in the area of 200 yds so the math says that it will kill that far.

Now hitting something at 200 yds on purpose would be quite a feat.

Our sport of trad bowhunting is a close range effort where I have experienced shots from 5 feet to 35 yds.  The arrow and broadhead always did it's part if I did mine.

Mike

[lpcjon2]

Come on test yourself, how close can you get before penetration isnt an issue.

 Way to many variables to consider in the distance thing.

[Slim]

Arrow penetration is not an issue within my own personal effective range of 25 yards. I test myself all the time.
But that's not the question. I'm just wondering when the kinetic energy of an arrow runs out to the point where it is no longer lethal to game. It's a hypothetical, I personally don't shoot past 25 at game for a number of reasons.
I'll buy that the arrow is lethal for as long as it's in flight.

[lpcjon2]

Slim,
 I know its hypothetical. The past few years we had a few threads on this and like I said the variables are abundant. Wind,release,and such are determining factors. With wheels I have shot(at targets) some redulous ranges and the penetration was ok but the accuracy is diminished. With my 70# longbow i have shot targets at long ranges and with the arc they have had a lot less penetration. with that EFOC stuff you may get an arrow with a flat trajectory that can carry the needed energy and force to penetrate effectively above 40 + yards. Even slugs from a shotgun drop after 60 yards.

  With a 50# bow I would say past 40 yards would have a loss of penetration not suitably for a clean kill.JMHO

[Slim]

That's the type of opinion I was looking for. Thanks. I appreciate that there are a ton of variables and I know it's all guesstimation.
I was wondering because I read these old archery books and those guys seemed to shoot animals at distances we now consider ridiculous.
Of course, they never seem to worry about wounding either. At least it's not mentioned.
What's EFOC?

[eminart]

I don't know the answer, but I do know this; If you shoot something straight up into the air, when it falls it doesn't come back down with the same velocity. Some complex formula of weight and drag is needed to determine the actual velocity, but for example, a bullet coming straight down will hurt, but isn't really lethal (unless you're unlucky).

An arrow has a point on it, but also has a lot more drag than a bullet.

I think at some distance, depending on how high the arrow must arc, most of the velocity from the bow is lost and the arrow is just falling.

Perhaps it's still lethal as far as it will shoot. I don't know enough about this to know. But, I think we'd find that an arrow shot straight up, wouldn't be consistently lethal. How far we'd have to flatten the arc out before it became so, I have no idea.

[lpcjon2]

EFOC is in the Ashby reports on the main page(I dont partake in those technical advances). And back in the day game had more places to roam and meat was scarce so I feel they took those shots cause they had to try and feed the family. As Fred Bear said if your hungry hunt with a gun.

[Archie]

My dad was an old school bowhunter, and killed a multitude of sheep and goats on Catalina Island in the 60s and 70s at 70+ yards.  I believe he shot a 67# Jack Howard Gamemaster most of the time.  In about 1982 he killed a good sized moose (70" antlers) at 84 yards.  The moose walked 20 yards and fell dead.  He hunted with a recurve with sights and a finger-release, and was just a fantastic shot.  I don't know much about the mechanics of penetration, nor advocate those types of long shots, but arrows retain a lot of energy.  I would be a lot more worried about an arrow with a broadhead shot straight up in the air (when it comes down), than any hunting bullet shot straight up.

[Slim]

All these are good points to consider. Love those stories of old time bowhunters. Your dad must have been quite a guy.

[ChuckC]

327 yards, 2 feet, and 7 inches.

Don't shoot past that.


Historically, heavy arrows were used by the Europeans at whatever range the arrow would fly.  Wars were won using arrows in this way. At that range bodkin points penetrated a lot, including armor in some cases.

 I am gonna guess the heads were nowhere near as sharp as what we use.
And west Asian horse warriors used lighter arrows in the same way.

I get a bit worried when we discuss things like "how far", "how light", "how slow" etc in a bow hunting forum, for the single reason that there are newer folks, or not so well versed folks who are really trying to absorb all this information, but who do not yet have the background to discern theory from an absolute approval to use this or do that.

Unlike a bullet that runs out of energy and then, eventually, you have a 180 or less grain projectile that bounces off and just makes you upset,  with a sharp arrow of any real (trad) weight, just dropping it ten feet will allow that to penetrate your skin and body.

Do a test. . try it out ( please. . . use a piece of hide or something other than your body. . or your little brothers').
ChuckC

[Zradix]

Kill a deer.

Strap it up between a couple trees/posts whatever.

Shoot at it with broadheads from a long way and find out....

I'd like to try it some time...just gotta get that deer first...

[Ray Hammond]

Curious- WHY? What difference does it make if you aren't going to do it? Arrows can kill as far as you can shoot them. Pull your bow and angle 45 degrees to straight up.  Measure the distance to teh arrow. That's how far.  

Kinetic energy hasn't got as much to do with it as momentum.  I think you need to get out and hunt something.

I think you're asking the wrong question.

By the very fact that you've selected a normal bow to hunt with, you've handicapped yourself- right?

If you want to see how far you can shoot something with a close range weapon, you're headed in the wrong direction.

Please don't bring up Howard Hill and others who shot game at long distances- we used to shoot hundreds of ducks a day, until we figured out that wasn't too smart.  

Ideas, techniques, and mores change with our experience. Those fellows were sailing in uncharted waters, trying to find ways to broaden the use of archery equipment for hunting and taking chances most hunters wouldn't dream of today. Chances with the lives of animals, my friend.

When you wound something, it shakes you to the core- you remember those shots vividly and usually wake in a cold sweat at night when doing so.

It isn't that animals CAN'T be killed at long ranges- they can! But SHOULD that be your question?

Why not use a muzzleloader instead? Or a centerfire rifle if you want to shoot stuff far away?

Let's instead ask the question of ourselves "how close can I get before I shoot this animal?"

Don't shortchange yourself- I agree with Rob Schneider when he says in the Waterboy, "you can do it!"

I hog hunted with a young man last weekend who had never hunted hogs- in fifteen minutes he was hunting as quietly as a mountain lion and in fact stalked up to within 3 or four yards of a sounder of sleeping hogs- THAT'LL TRIP YOUR TRIGGER!

[eminart]

He's said repeatedly that he doesn't shoot over 25 yards. He's just curious, as many of us are, how far an arrow is lethal. Just like you might want to know just what kind of damage an atomic bomb will do - doesn't mean you want to get one and blow something up.

[Shinken]

Amen Ray!  Amen.

BTW - nice bull in your avatar!

Shoot straight, Shinken

   

[dnovo]

A lot of people have posted here, but have either not read the question or misunderstood it. He is simply wondering at what distance a broadhead arrow would still be lethal. He did not ask about how far he should shoot at game. Not asking about how close to get to game before shooting.
I guess I am amazed by how many times a post is so misread and convoluted by the time several people answer a question that it takes on a whole new meaning not in the least resembling the original question