How far can I shoot a deer before penetration becomes an issue?

[gregg dudley]

Originally posted by mike g:
Slim....
    The History books will give you the answer.
For 150 yrs the longbow was the king of weapons on the battle field.
    Untold numbers of people killed, most out to 200-400 yds.
    So, I would assume the arrow will be deadly untill it hits something....
    Keep in mind also, most war arrows where around 1500 grains....
    Slim go to a butcher buy yourself a nice 150 Lb. pig take it out and shoot it at differant distances and see how it goes, and then have a BBQ....
    And I thought it was a good question....

Great answer.

Can't believe all the people who bypassed the intent of the question and started into the maximum ethical distance rhetoric.                  
That is not what the original question was about.  From the outset the question was about the distance that an arrow can travel and still maintain lethal energy.

[PaddyMac]

I think just about all of us here realize the real essence to the game is seeing how close we can get and the vast majority fall off at 20 yards or less more out of ethics than ability.

But I think in the spirit of the question as it was asked, it was answered several times: if that hunting-weight arrow has a well sharpened and trad-weight broadhead upfront and if it is still in the air, and if it doesn't center a shoulder ... it's lethal.

Even if you drop it out of an airplane at 20,000 ft., I think a cedar arrow with a scary sharp 225 gr grizzly up front would be much more of a hazard than an annoyance.

[Slim]

Pat, I'm good with that and several other answers posed. For the most part, I found the viewpoints interesting and informative.
I'm relatively new to this forum and didn't know I was opening up a can of worms with the question as it was posed.

[Turkeys Fear Me]

Originally posted by PaddyMac:
Even if you drop it out of an airplane at 20,000 ft., I think a cedar arrow with a scary sharp 225 gr grizzly up front would be much more of a hazard than an annoyance.

I got some news for you.  It won't take anywhere close to 20,000 feet.

I suggest that those that doubt this should shoot a broadhead tipped arrow (sharp or not) straight into the air.  Watch as it goes straight up, come to a complete stop, reverse it's course, and start heading back to earth.

Now, stand directly underneath it.

The rest of us will discuss it's lethality... at your funeral.

 

[ChuckC]

Dude (et al)  back up a bit.  We have been on line for quite some time now and we have had all kinds of questions. Slim, you have been here longer than I have.  As I said in my first response, I am not so worried about you (Slim)as I am of others that are new, that are not very well versed.  Every time we say " yup 37 pounds is plenty to shoot a water buffalo with" (theoretically) they believe it and it becomes gospel.  We as a group need to be very careful and responsible with what we say. (and yes. .  you DID say it was a theoretical question, we saw that).  

A question right on back. .  if nobody is actually thinking of shooting that far. . .
why does it matter ?
ChuckC.

[Slim]

Hey Chuck,

I asked out of curiosity. I want to know as much as I can about this stuff. That's why it matters to me. That's why I ask questions.
If I know my bow is lethal to 200 yards it might make me think twice about shooting geese towards a farmyard or cattle, for instance.
Knowledge is never useless. Even the trivial facts help you put things in context.

On another point, I respectfully disagree with you on your assessment of new members. I doubt they just buy everything without critical thought. They're here to be educated and they look around. I suspect most that are into traditional archery have already figured out the basic stuff -- they come here to get the nuances and confirm what they know.

Oh, and to feel part of a community -- a feeling they won't get if we keep talking down to them.

I agree we should be careful that our information is correct, but I don't think we should stop discussing theoretical stuff because we think they are too new to figure it out. If anything, these questions help answer some of theirs.... Or encourage them to ask others.

My two cents.

[ChuckC]

Slim,  then simply asking it that way would have alleviated much of the spirited banter.  And believe me or not,  folks DON'T know and they do take things to heart.  I see this all the time in Hunter Ed classes.

Your topic name sure sounds like extreme deer hunting in the making. Maybe that got things on the wrong foot.

As was answered several times,  do it.  Shoot your bow in a very large field where you know it is safe.  However far the arrows go,  that there is the basic range.  If a sharp broadhead falls out of the sky and hits a living critter. .  it could be lethal, whatever the range. edited to add. . as a second thought, even if it wasn't lethal, do we really want to take a chance of having the farmers cow, or child wearing a non-lethal, but none the less firmly implanted arrow in their body ?

I don't believe anybody here is trying to be critical of you or chastise you or even thinks badly of you.  It is certainly not a personal response.  We are trying our best to be good neighbors and answer your question.
ChuckC

[Archie]

Nothing at all wrong with Slim's question/topic.  It's taken a lot of twists and turns, but I took it as a way to read some banter between penetration at 15 yards and penetration at, say 75 yards.  

It's good to read a lot of different responses, and I don't think any newbies got the wrong impression of the ethical questions and risks of long shots, as such was clarified by several different folks.

[Slim]

Hey Chuck,

I've done all that. I'm not new to this.
I have my opinions but I was looking for input and to hear other experiences.
As for how I asked it, I thought it was a fairly straight forward question. Still do.
I don't believe anyone thinks badly of me either. Heck, it was just a question.
Which is why I figure I shouldn't have to defend why I asked it.....

[Bjorn]

I know this does not conclude anything; but just to satisfy my own curiosity I shot 2 absolutely identical 650 gn arrows into fresh foam. One from 4 yards and the second from 25 yds. (can't get farther back in my yard set up).
I marked both with a sharpie and pulled them out-not a 1/16" difference between them-not scientific but satisfied my curiosity since my hunting shots are mostly from a few yards out to maybe 30.

[joe skipp]

I would say 30 yards with either a 2 blade head or 3 blade head. I'm basing this off my new Fedora, 52# and shooting 525 and 585 grain arrows. I could push the distance to 40 but 30 yds would be more effective.

Today's bows are much more efficient than those I started with back in the late 60's.

[eminart]

Well, I'm skeptical, so I submitted this question to Mythbusters.

I have no doubt that some people were killed from 200-400 yards back in the day with english longbows. But, how consistently? AND they were using arrows that weighed 3 times what our arrows weigh. I think that will make a huge difference.

Somebody with a tall building, put a foam target under your window and drop an arrow down onto it. I'm curious. I don't think you're going to get a lot of penetration.

[calgarychef]

try dropping an arrow with broadhead from 3 feet onto some plywood and it'll stick.  I wonder what it would be like from a couple hundred feet?

[eminart]

I wonder what it would be like from a couple hundred feet? [/QB]

Stick a little deeper. There is a height at which something will reach maximum speed when falling and no matter how much higher you go, it still falls at the same rate. I don't know what that height is for an arrow, but it's probably not as high as you might think.

[lpcjon2]

Is maximum velocity 32 feet per second?

[eminart]

Originally posted by lpcjon2:
Is maximum velocity 32 feet per second?

 Probably not.

As I've said, I really don't know any of the answers to these questions. I'm just guessing.

[lpcjon2]

"An object falling toward the surface of the Earth will fall 9.81 meters (or 32.18 feet) per second faster every second (an acceleration of 9.81 m/s² or 32.18 ft/s²)."

This was from Wikipedia, I was kinda close

[Bjorn]

As I recall grade 10 physics it can hit a max velocity of 125' per sec. easily enough to be fatal.

[gringol]

holy crap.  I avoided this thread since it was first posted because I knew it would be a mine-field.  Today, I got bored and read it, and I was right.  It is a complete booby trap.  

Everyone please take a deep breath.  Closed bow-season has everyone on edge and looking for an argument about the morals of this and that.  The man asked a pretty simple question and I think the answer is pretty simple.  An arrow can be deadly for as far as the arrow will fly.  Period.  Historical accounts indicate this.

For the newbies,  I assume you understand that this is a theoretical discussion, but in case you don't, launching arrows at game from 200 yards is completely unethical, ineffective, and stupid because you won't hit anything.

Now, I like 5.5" feathers, so my maximum effective killing range may be a little less than some others. My goal has always been to have the effective accuracy wise distance as my arrow is killing wise.  Another 200 or so yards and I will have it.