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Author Topic: What BH would you choose for elk?  (Read 649 times)

Offline Arrow4Christ

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What BH would you choose for elk?
« on: July 29, 2007, 05:51:00 PM »
I am having a tough time choosing a head for elk. I was pretty sure about the Razorcaps, but I have been hearing such great things about Simmons lately, I'm not sure which I want! I'm as fickle about broadheads as WildmanSC is about bows! (no offense  :D ) I'm now shooting a 62#@30" DAS Dalaa with 530gr. Victory arrows, but I will probably be shooting a 53#@30" Dalaa with Hex5-H limbs and 480gr. Victories by the time season starts. Which would you choose  (Tigershark or Razorcaps) based on penetration and blood trails? Thanks,
Craig

Offline elk ninja

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Re: What BH would you choose for elk?
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2007, 06:16:00 PM »
Craig,  I am like you, I like to mess about with my gear some, and broadheads are about as cheap and fun as any piece of gear.  But don't over-analize it is all good with minimal differences IF you shoot a well tuned bow and take high percentage shots.  Good luck, don't overthink it, it will lead to doubt at your moment of truth.
>>>--Semper-Fi--->

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
-Abraham Lincoln

Offline Shawn Leonard

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Re: What BH would you choose for elk?
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2007, 08:48:00 PM »
I just like 3 blade head better than 2 and for elk and the right bow and arrow set-up penetration would not be an issue with me. Shawn
Shawn

Offline robslifts

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Re: What BH would you choose for elk?
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2007, 08:53:00 PM »
I have not had any problem with two blades so I would not change so I voted for the simmons

thanks for the poll
St. Joe River Bows

Offline Mike Burch

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Re: What BH would you choose for elk?
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2007, 09:03:00 PM »
With the Simmons tiger sharks, you get the best of both worlds. Now if the big ole Snuffer was in the blood trail part, it would have gotten my vote.   :D  

Mike

Offline Arrow4Christ

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Re: What BH would you choose for elk?
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2007, 09:42:00 PM »
If you guys think penetration wouldn't be an issue with either from either setup I really just want the one with the best blood trails...thanks,
craig

Offline Dave2old

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Re: What BH would you choose for elk?
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2007, 10:51:00 AM »
Is the Simmons Tiger Shark the convex head ... or is that another Shark? In Dr.Ashby's most recent studies, soon to be updated on his page here at TradGang, the convex-head Sharks performed the worst of all two-blade heads when impacting heavy bone, like an elk scapula. Grizzly single-bevels, modified to a 25-degree edge bevel and a Tanto point, proved indestructable and by far the best at splitting heavy bone for lethal penetration. Excuse me for saying so, but this is heartfelt help I'm trying to offer ... your entire arrow setup is cruising for trouble with elk. Again relying on Ashby's superb and unimpeachable work, born out by my own long experience with elk, you need at least 650 total grains of arrow weight to have a decent chance of penetrating heavy bone for a lethal kill. Other crucial elements -- aside from perfect arrow flight and sharp heads, of course -- incudes a strong, long and narrow two-blade head, like Grizzly, STOS and others, as much forward-of-center (FoC) arrow balance as yu can achieve (carbons are good for this) and more. I highly recommend that you read Ashby's most recent, 2005 update on this site. TBM will be publishing a series of articles on his latest work this fall and winter. Sure, you can kill an elk with a weak bow and light arrows and multi-blade heads ... if you and the elk are lucky. The only moral choice is to set up your gear to kill elk with the worst possible hit. I have personally seen arrows bounce out of an elk shoulder blade hit. Broadside, you have about 50/50 chance of hitting a rib, and the low front ones over the lungs and heart and the heaviest and closest together. Turn that animal even slightly at an angle and those ribs "close up" making a rib hit absolute. I strongly suggest that you upsize your arrows. Good luck, dave

Offline brackshooter

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Re: What BH would you choose for elk?
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2007, 12:20:00 PM »
I have to agree with Dave.  I have only killed a few elk, and cant believe how tough they are and how massive their bones are.  Especially if you are hunting our Roosevelt elk, add at least 10-20% to the body size, and you could have almost a moose sized animal on your hands.  I would up your arrow weight to at least 650 and stick with a strong 2 blade.  I would always count on a less than perfect hit, then there are never any surprises.

brack

Offline T. Downing

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Re: What BH would you choose for elk?
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2007, 12:26:00 PM »
Bravo Dave, right on the money. T
Like arrows in the hands of a warrior
are children born in one’s youth. Blessed is the man
whose quiver is full of them.
Psalm 127 4-5

Offline Dave Lay

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Re: What BH would you choose for elk?
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2007, 04:20:00 PM »
good info here, thanks Dave, going on my first ever elk adventure, and have had alot of folks tell me my usuall white tail set up of 62lb longbow and 560 gr cedars with zwickey delta would be fine, but I can weight up my aluminums to 650 pretty easily. Sounds like the way to go.
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Offline Arrow4Christ

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Re: What BH would you choose for elk?
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2007, 06:03:00 PM »
The Tigershark is a concave head. My 480gr. arrow will be going 212fps.

Offline brackshooter

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Re: What BH would you choose for elk?
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2007, 06:14:00 PM »
craig-
In the speed vs. Momentum debate, speed always looses.  You need mass for consistent penetration.  In my opinion, i would add at least 100 grains and see what happens.  you will still be shooting a plenty fast arrow, should be at least in the 190s, which is faster than 90% of guys shoot.  Getting through those ribs and (heaven forbid) shoulders is not easy with any bow/arrow combo.  I would shoot your setup all day for deer, but I would rethink it for elk.

brack

Offline Dave2old

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Re: What BH would you choose for elk?
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2007, 07:20:00 PM »
Ah shucks, I meant to say concave -- rounded in. Ashby says in his latest tests (which I have seen) that's the weakest shape for broadheads with a high failure rate. He likes Grizzlies, but any long, narrow, very strong two-blade should work. I really like STOS but will give the Griz a try this year.

Offline rawshaft

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Re: What BH would you choose for elk?
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2007, 07:22:00 PM »
A sharp one!!!!!  :goldtooth:
Jamie Johnson

Offline Doug Treat

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Re: What BH would you choose for elk?
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2007, 07:53:00 PM »
I agree with the heavier weight shafts.  In my experience with elk, 4 elk taken and 3 others hit, all the ones I killed were shot with 590+ gr. and the ones I didn't recover weren't...well, one of those was shot with a heavy arrow and my poor shooting was to blame.  I would shoot at least 600 and 650 or more is better.

Offline Mr.Chuck

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Re: What BH would you choose for elk?
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2007, 09:18:00 PM »
I guess the grizzlies are the broadhead for those that only hit bone all the time.  I thought a well placed arrow is what's important.  You say things can go wrong?  At the moment of truth, that's when all that practice pays off. Right?  We do practice, don't we?

Offline Arrow4Christ

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Re: What BH would you choose for elk?
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2007, 09:29:00 PM »
Guys,
The thing with my arrow setup is that I have gotten a lot input from people I respect that recommend this weight of arrow. I know a lot of guys like heavy, but I shoot a relatively light arrow best (about 200-210fps) and I think that's really important. I don't cut any corners when it comes to arrow tuning. I bareshaft them at 40+ yards to insure that they are perfect. I use a plunger/rest setup. I think that's where most penetration problems arise, not arrow weight. I do respect that opinion, but am set on the arrow issue for now. How many of you guys bareshaft? How far? When you do, do you compensate for the lost weight of your feathers/vanes, wraps, cresting etc.?
I think heavy arrows are more efficient on heavy bone, but I think you're in a heap of trouble with heavy bone either way. I'd rather have that extra accuracy and avoid the bone.
Thanks for the opinions, I do appreciate it, and certainly respect all of them.
God bless,
Craig

Offline Brian Krebs

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Re: What BH would you choose for elk?
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2007, 09:42:00 PM »
again; if your shooting one arrow; and using a light bow; your going to satisfy experts that your arrow is heavy enough for elk- and other big game.
 But take the same arrow; leave everything the same.... but increase the bow weight; and you will be an irresponsible hunter: for using too light an arrow.
 Consistant accuracy; and a SHARP broadhead- will do more to take down game: than arrow weights; and broadhead types.
THE VOICES HAVEN'T BOTHERED ME SINCE I STARTED POKING THEM WITH A Q-TIP.

Offline Richie Nell

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Re: What BH would you choose for elk?
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2007, 09:49:00 PM »
At 40 yards you are even worse off with the lighter setup. If I am not mistaken the lighter weight you have the more momentum is lost down range.  Heavier weight keeps its momentum at greater distances.  

Also, a heavy arrow can be tuned and shot just as accurately as a light one, in my opinion.
Richie Nell

Black Widow
PSA X Osage/Kingwood 71#@31

Offline Mr.Magoo

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Re: What BH would you choose for elk?
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2007, 10:20:00 PM »
Craig,

Don't take this the wrong way, I'm just curious.

I just read through a thread you started on "Trad Talk" last Nov. where it looks like you're using the same set-up on whitetails (with the Razorcap).  You said you hit a doe in the shoulder blade, didn't get good penetration, didn't get a good blood trail and didn't find the doe.

Why would you use the same set-up on elk?

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