Bareshaft tuning >>>HELP

[bowhunterportugal]

Hi gang,

I'm confused. I'm left handed.

Been trying different spines and lengths and I got really confused.

Weak spine should give me nock right and point of impact left? Or is it the other way around?

Thanks for helping.
Diogo

[Shinken]

"Weak spine should give me nock right and point of impact left? " That is correct.

Keep the questions comin'!

Shoot straight, Shinken

   

[bowhunterportugal]

Does it make any sense to paper tune a trad bow? Or bareshaft is the way to go?

[Bjorn]

Both methods work. If you have limited space paper tune; if you can get 20 yds from your target then you can bareshaft. Personally I am a bareshafter.

[JamesKerr]

I like bare shaft tuning. That said my release is not that good so all my tuning is done at 15 yards. The point of bare shaft tuning is to see where you bare shafts group in relation to fletched shafts. Once I start getting about as good of a group as I can shoot (about a 1-2" group at 15 yards) Then I call it good. With you being left handed then your bare shafts will group right of your bare shafts if your overspined. They will group left of your fletched shafts if you are underspined.

[beachbowhunter]

Originally posted by Shinken:
"Weak spine should give me nock right and point of impact left? " That is correct.

Keep the questions comin'!

Shoot straight, Shinken

       

Only if you are a left hander...

[Kentucky Jeff]

Just my opinion.  But I think trying to tune your arrows when you are new to Trad Bows is a waste of time.  

I went through it and it cost me a lot of wasted time, aggrevation, and money and when I finally figured out where the problems were I discovered it had nothing to do with arrow length, or spine, or center shot, or point weight.    It had to do with my form.   If you have bad form it can mask what's really going on with your arrows.

Lets face it.  Too weak or stiff an arrow will wobble when it comes off the bow for sure.  But if your form is correct it will do it the same way every time.  So you should be able to group that arrow.  Which means you can shoot it well regardless of its tune.

Now don't take what I'm saying the wrong way.  I'm not saying you shouldn't tune your arrows to your bow.  What I AM saying is far too often what I see is someone trying to tune a bow using bad form.  Which is like trying to buy the right golf clubs with a bad/inconsistent swing.   In either case the equipment isn't really the problem.  But you'll not discover the real problem until you sort out your form.

Take arrows that SHOULD be well matched to your bow and pound a blind bale at 3 yards for about 3 weeks.  70-100 shots a day.  Focus on your grip, stance, back tension, anchor, release, follow through etc.  REALLY zero in on one of each of those aspects for 5 or 7 shots.  Then move to the next.  Let down shots that aren't perfect.  Don't accept any shot that is less than exactly what you expect.

After three weeks move back to 5 yards and try to hit a target.  Your form should be consistent and repeatable.  Your release should be smooth and your bow should be quiet.  You'll notice your bow will settle down at some point in the blind bale exercise.  Its telling you something.  Listen to it.

Once you know you can execute a perfect shot EVERY time at 5 yards move back to 10 yards.  If you mess up any of the shots on target at this stage go back to the blind bale for the rest of the day and work on the aspect of your form that is messed up.

Once you can make a shot at 20 yards and do it perfectly every time.  You are probably good enough to tune your bow.   Otherwise you'll end up chasing your tail.  A poor release will cause oscillation of the bow string that may make the arrow bend one way when it comes off the rise that may in fact be the opposite of what's really happening.  You may be torquing the bowstring with tension in your hand and making it bounce off the riser indicating nock high.  When in fact the nocking point is fine.  You simply have too much tension in your string hand.  

In any case.  My advice is to work on your form HARD for a month or six weeks.  Then get down to tuning equipment.  

YMMV

[bowhunterportugal]

Kentucky Jeff,

That opinion is one off the reason's why forum's like this make all the difference. That seems a good peace of advice.

All that form training is in my schedule, but the reality, different from the states, is that in Portugal nobody shoot's traditional. Well, there are a couple but no more, and so we must search for knowledge on web. Also, it is impossible to find materials, arrows, accessories, etc, especially trad gear. All the guy's here either take archery as sport or hunt with compound's or xbows, me included may I ad.

I bought a BW from a trad member, and although I know tuning will be a process to think in the future, if I can get some gear that allows me to do that then, I'll try to buy it now. Its too expensive to be constantly ordering things from abroad. And it takes time!

Trad bows need heavier arrows and that is what I'm looking for.

I shoot a trad bow for a while now (maybe 6 months almost every day). My form needs a lot of improvement, as you can imagine what I learn it came almost everything through youtube since nobody does it around here. I've posted a video of me shooting on Shooter form forum just to see if I can get more help, and thank god already some guy's are trying to pass knowledge.

That being said, I really appreciate all opinion's. All I want is to learn, and americans are the best at this, so.

Thanks for the tip.

Diogo

[toby]

Kenyucky Jeff,

 Couldn't agree more, perfect post. I have made the mistake of trying to tune before I could shoot/form, does not work.

if all knew shooters followed your advice there would be a lot more happy shooters, great job.

Toby

[FrankM]

I agree with Kentucky Jeff too. I went through hell. Finally, I "tuned" arrows whose field points and broadheads group together. Called it good enough and don't tune them anymore. Maybe when my groups get better I can revisit it.

[moebow]

Yep!!!  Get arrows that are spined 10 to 15# higher than your rated draw length if you have a modern recurve/longbow.  If you have an older (not cut to center) bow get arrows that are spined about the same as your rated draw weight.  THEN JUST SHOOT THEM!!!  They may not fly well, they may clank off the bow BUT they will fly to the same place IF you do your part (FORM).  Once you have the arrows hitting consistently (grouping) THEN AND ONLY THEN start to try to tune for better arrow flight.

You will save a lot of aggravation and money that way.  Too many get frustrated trying to tune their equipment when it is their form that needs work first.

[bowhunterportugal]

My english is tricking me again. What do you mean by arrows spined at my rated draw length? What is the connection?

Moebow, I got the BW today! It is a beauty...

[Kentucky Jeff]

Diogo,

  I hear what you are saying and can only imagine what its like trying to buy Trad Archery stuff on your side of the ocean.

  But I'll bet you there are some FITA/Olympic style archery clubs in Portugal.  Those folks understand form!  See if you can look them up.

  If you buy into what I'm telling you you only need one arrow.  Because you are shooting at 3 yards.  You also need 20-30 seconds between shots anyhow for your back muscles to fully recover.  When you perfect your form its EASY to learn to hit stuff.  The problem is we are all geared towards hitting stuff.  So we skip over the form part and totally disregard that the shot process is what makes hits possible.  We want hits NOW!
But we don't want to pay the price to build a consistent shot that makes consistent hits possible.  

So you only need one arrow!  A Bow, a finger tab/glove and armguard.  and an umarked target 3 yards away.  

I know this sounds boring as hell.  But shooting a bow well is a discipline!  You don't buy a grand piano and go out and play Mozart the next day.  You spend years perfecting your technique and practicing your form.  So it goes with Archery but thankfully shooting a bow well is no where nearly as difficult as playing classical piano.  

The longer you practice on targets and neglect your form the more you are learning bad form that will need to be fixed later...and it will take a lot more UNLEARNING than it otherwise would have taken for you to learn it right in the beginning.

Lastly, when it comes to tuning your bow/arrows.  The easiest way I can describe the process is this:  When you don't understand what proper form is and how a well executed shot sequence feels, you'll have no idea what just happened with the arrow you shot and are trying to tune.   When you have good form--you KNOW what just happened with that arrow.  That difference is a revelation when you first experience it.  So if you are bare-shafting arrows or paper tuning arrows and find yourself scratching your head trying to figure out what the hell is going on with your equipment--that should be your first clue that maybe your form isn't what you think it is and might in fact be THE problem.  

As always, YMMV

[moebow]

Diogo,  Have fun with it!!  All I'm saying is that if you get arrows that are spined about 60 to 65 pounds to start for your new BW  which you told me was 53 pounds at 28 inches (if I remember correctly) you will  have arrows to shoot and to not worry about tuning yet.  Shoot them until you are really comfortable with your shooting.

Kentucky Jeff is giving great advice!  Most folks though will have to get at least 6 arrows, you can't generally buy just one.  I suggest shooting 2 or 3 arrows at least and as they start to hit the same place start moving back from the target and try to keep the groups tight.

Once you are keeping the groups tight is the time to START to think about tuning.  Form trumps equipment every time!

[bowhunterportugal]

I will. Today I manage to skip work a little early and made some shots applying the rotation by the waist technique that you showed in a video. Much more comfortable.

With your help I'll get there.

Thanks to all.

I'll start with Kentucky advice. I don't have the arrows I want yet, but I have one arrow to start.

[bowhunterportugal]

Kentucky Jeff, what does it mean YMMV? Just curious.

[moebow]

YMMV = Your Mileage May Vary.

You may get different results.

[bowhunterportugal]

Ok, thanks.

Now that kentucky jeff draw what it seems to me a good training program, witch aspect of form should I attend first? If I'm going to try them all at once I won't be able to tell witch one is messing up. On the other hand, if I attend one at the time, the shot may seem mess up not because that specific aspect may have fail but because all the others did. Does this make any sense? Am I explaining myself?
Is there one that I should start with?

Yesterday Moebow was telling me about my string arm elbow. Today I tried to correct it but I'm not sure how to do it. Didn't get the wall thing in practice Moebow!

[moebow]

Jeff may add to this, but you already have a good start from your earlier video.  Just start close like Jeff says and do not try to hit a specific target.  Just work on how your shot feels and look for consistency.  Post a video every now and then and as suggested see if you can find a FITA (target) coach.  Good form is good form and a coach will speed your progress.

[bowhunterportugal]

Well, we have the present European champion. He comes to my farm to hunt. Maybe he can help me.