What's your thoughts on Hill's quote?

[NBK]

Read a quote by Mr. Howard Hill in a recent thread.
The quote is:  "Son make up your mind right now if you want to target shoot or hunt as theres a world of differance between the two"

I would really like to hear what you guys think about this.  What is "the world of difference"? specifically.  I haven't read his book and perhaps that contains some insight, but to me, aside from all the other intangibles that make one a good hunter, what's he trying to say about shooting?

[SheltonCreeker]

I'm no yoda but to me the difference is targets aren't alive. Targets are great for muscle memory and form but when you you draw back on a living animal the serious factor changes. 6 inches to the left on a target your wondering what happened with your shot. Same thing during a hunt and you may have sent an animal off to suffer a horrible death. To me the stress factor goes up greatly with hunting. Just my 2 cents. I haven't read the book either so I maybe way off. And as you posted then there are the uncontolled circumstances of a hunt.

[Bill Carlsen]

The difference for me is mental. Shooting at a living, moving, breathing thing adds more variables than if you are just shooting targets. Target shooting you set your own pace and tempo, can have a step by step process and have much more control over variables. In hunting, circumstances dictate a good deal of how things happen. Having said that, however, I don't think Hill ever lost a tournament he shot in and regardless of what your target is, alive or not, you still need control over yourself and your shot. There is no substitute for shooting well, in either situation. Good shooting is what it is....good shooting.

[PaddyMac]

For me it's risk and consequence. I shoot at my target at 40 yards every day from as realistic hunting situations as I can create. I'd never shoot at a live animal at that range, tho. OK, maybe a starling. But the risk of sticking a buck in the butt or the ear is just terrible at that range. But I will say that Hill did not share my squeamishness. He flung some arras, that guy. And maybe what he meant was you just can't duplicate real hunting conditions so you have to train for that, not for range conditions. (That is, stump and rove, probably.)

[ChuckC]

Remember. . .  that was said "back in the day"

Back in the day, there was target archery and there was bowhunting, and very vew did the bowhunting.  Back then, the techniques used for target archery were really not so conducive to hunting (like, maybe. .  asking the deer to stay still while I run up and throw a point of aim indicator on the ground a few yards before it so I have something to aim at),  like pulling up, standing straight up and holding for a long time before releasing etc.
ChuckC

[lpcjon2]

Yup two different states of mind.Targets are a single focused event, hunting is a continual focused event that changes with every step.JMHO

[eminart]

Different gear. Different mentally. Often different form.

[Crash]

Could have been relating it to the different forms required for the two activities.  Form that works great for targets is not always applicable in a hunting situation.  Hunting form for a 20 yard shot is not always the best for a tight group at 40 plus yards for a target.

[Plumber]

I am not laughing an jokeing when hunting!
when Iam hunting I have a totally differnt mind set.however I have a blast when doing both,

[sinawalli]

Originally posted by SheltonCreeker:
I'm no yoda but to me the difference is targets aren't alive. Targets are great for muscle memory and form but when you you draw back on a living animal the serious factor changes. 6 inches to the left on a target your wondering what happened with your shot. Same thing during a hunt and you may have sent an animal off to suffer a horrible death. To me the stress factor goes up greatly with hunting. Just my 2 cents. I haven't read the book either so I maybe way off. And as you posted then there are the uncontolled circumstances of a hunt.

X2! Target doesn't have antlers! You can shoot targets, 3D all day, and do really well, but when there a 6X6 bull elk charging to within 10 yards of you, well that's a whole different story. Same thing for cops who shoot paper all the time, but when you have a bad guy hell bent on blowing you away, things go wrong real fast!!

[sinawalli]

Originally posted by SheltonCreeker:
I'm no yoda but to me the difference is targets aren't alive. Targets are great for muscle memory and form but when you you draw back on a living animal the serious factor changes. 6 inches to the left on a target your wondering what happened with your shot. Same thing during a hunt and you may have sent an animal off to suffer a horrible death. To me the stress factor goes up greatly with hunting. Just my 2 cents. I haven't read the book either so I maybe way off. And as you posted then there are the uncontolled circumstances of a hunt.

X2! Target doesn't have antlers! You can shoot targets, 3D all day, and do really well, but when there a 6X6 bull elk charging to within 10 yards of you, well that's a whole different story. Same thing for cops who shoot paper all the time, but when you have a bad guy hell bent on blowing you away, things go wrong real fast!!You really have to factor in the stress factor!

[Hud]

Hill won a mess of field turnaments and set a record doing it, and he realized it involved two different methods of aiming. The better target shooters, like Larry Hughes shot differently when hunting. Hunting shots were fluid, and not deliberate. Shooters were using two different styles, even before sights. It does not improve you ability by switching back and forth. John Schulz put it his book, "Straight Shooting".

Pretty soon you feel like     why I missed that deer.

[Thumper Dunker]

You have to know how to hunt to bow hunt.Ones hunting the other is just shooting.

[Terry Green]

From what I actually read from the book and gathered it had nothing to do with 'form'....but more about positions and aiming.  

Once he started hunting and got away from target shooting, he started making shots instinctive, and from un orthodox positions....even though is form was still the same.

[Bjorn]

I think it depends on 'what' target archery is being talked about and how good you want to be. If you want to be mediocre-no problem.
If we are talking top 1% in long distance shooting=ultralite arrows, 90 meters etc that is a different situation. As I recall Howard himself had problems with certain types of target shooting and quit entering those events he likely knew what he was talking about.

[The Whittler]

I would think back then there was a big diff. in weight between target and hunting bows.

[Daz]

Hunting isn't about what you can do with five arrows, and what kind of group you get.
Hunting is one chance, one well placed arrow, and a quick humane kill.

[swampthing]

In target archery you got all day to set up the shot. In hunting you will have much less time to make it happen.
   I see it quite often when hunting, and as he would explain in further readings, game animals just don't wait for you to get all lined up.
   His swing draw, no hold at anchor, fluid style, allows you to get in tune with moving things. His quick shooting style surpasses all but the rangefinder/gap methods in terms of raw accuracy.
  Then on game, ha ha, by the time you got the rangefinder out, never mind the gap set on target, he'd already have a 90# cedar shaft through the "target." No EFOC, no F/F.

[NBK]

I think you guys are right about the "one shot from any possible angle/circumstance" vs. the repetitive mechanics of shooting groups at a bullseye.  Like Terry said, I really don't think it has anything to do with form, because form is form no matter what you're shooting.  To me it's how one would practice.  You either spend the majority of your time shooting those groups and hammering out your aiming system and routine, or as a hunter the majority of your time is spent with one arrow honing your skill at unknown distances, different positions, stumpshooting, etc.  It would behoove anyone to spend time doing both, but in the end you must focus the bulk of your time doing one or the other.  Just my interpretation after reading your responses.  Thanks.

I love hunting small game, there is a lot of difference between foam rabbits and real rabbits.  I cannot even remember ever not having to do something goofy with the stance and the timing on successful shots at real bunnies. Obviously target practice was important to Hill, but he did a lot more varied practice routines than most of us do in our back yards or at our local ranges.  Hill's practice routines would probably be frowned upon at most shooting ranges.